How can you say that? This outlandish statement has no place here. Why would you think any of the following would be cause for alarm? 1) Firing an OC who had spent his latest years under one of the best offensive minds the league has had in the last 10 seasons. 2) Firing the guy who actually had an effective offense led by a career loser QB that managed to get to a somewhat respectable 5-8 record last year and produce a QB rating near 100 in the first 13 games. 3) "Forcing" the OC duties on a guy that looked like he didn't really want it, the same guy who was one season removed from being out of the NFL for four years. 4) Deciding not to hire a replacement QB coach even though the Jets have a rookie QB, meaning the OC who doesn't have a huge history of sustained success has to pull double duty. Now what could possibly go wrong ?
That would be nothing. He shouldn't got the job in the first place. New York Jets job training site for bad coaches.
All these ailments in the aggregate are accute symptoms of a much larger problem. We do not have a capable HC that is able to select talent, staff accordingly, and develop a winning environment. Let's start there, and debut this leadership team.
No one “developed” Mahomes; he’s just that good. He was that good when we passed up on him for Adams and he remains that good today.
Mahomes definitely came with a ton of talent but had alot to learn too. Never took a snap under center before the draft. He was definitely coached up and taught quite a bit last season.
So Mahomes is tearing up the NFL and the record books because someone “taught” how to take snaps under center? And we now need that special someone to cone head coach our team? Give me Mahomes and they can keep their coaches. We should be interested in the guy(s) that recognized Mahomes’ talent not the ones that “ developed” him.
Mahomes is tearing up the league due to several factors. 1 he's talented 2 was taught and allowed to learn for a season 3 has all pro weapons 4 is playing in a system designed to his strengths
http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/pat-mahomes.87935/page-6 Post # 102 Your exact words: "What the team who picks up Mahomes should guard against is failing to develop his full potential. That's where having the right coaching staff comes in."
1. It starts with this and that holds the most weight. 2. Why didn’t that work for Hackenberg? 3. Mahomes put similar record breaking numbers in college playing with mostly scrubs. 4. Mahomes’ talent allows the coaches to be more creative. They had Alex Smith playing with the same talent and the results are not the same.
I don’t get your point. So if you don’t have the right CS don’t draft player? I don’t care if Bowles and company are football retarded, I draft Mahomes and find the coaching down the line. I’m not an idiot; I know football is a game of many moving parts full of variables. But I also know talent is talent.
The comparison, admittedly extreme, is meant to point out that sometimes the player, not coaching, makes the difference.
Regarding Bates and the blame he should shoulder, I still come back to this: looking at the play calling he's done vs. the skill set that Darnold (and those around him) have, why is Bates not fired yet? It's so completely opposite of their strengths! Well I guess when you let a guy who has absolutely no understanding of offense pick an OC this is the result. They both need to go, NOW.
First of all, my point was simple, I responded to a poster who credited Bieniemy with developing Mahomes You jumped in middle of the conversation and said no one deveoped Mahomes. I was in full support of drafting him along with Colorado and yourself, along with a handful of others. I don't know where your coming from, I never said anything closely related to not drafting the player. You need to go back, read my post and yours and get back on track. Your all over the place , putting words into my mouth here.
I think I’m still on track. Basically, I’m starting to hate the term “develop”, especially when it comes to QBs. It is often used as either an excuse or a way to discredit. Early on in their respective careers, apologists would cry that Sanchez, Geno and Hackenberg were not being “developed” properly. And now for those who can’t admit we whiffed royally on Mahomes, they tell themselves that he’s being “developed” in a way he wouldn’t be here. NFL coaches can put players in the positions to succeed or fail but they are not doing a lot of developing. Teaching a QB how to drop from center is not some major coaching achievement. Most of these college Air Raid QBs learn that in the short months between the end of the college season and the Combine. I’ll credit a portion of Mahomes statistics to coaching and surrounding talent but not his “development”. As good as KC’s offensive system, play calling and players are, there are plenty of examples of him making something out of nothing or making ridiculous throws that very few can make. At the end of the day, we fucked up as usual and sounds like you agree.
As anyone who read the game threads already knows, I don’t have a huge problem with Bates’ play calling. Outside of the occasional “too cute” play call, most of the problems have been poor execution. He’s definitely not the most creative OC to roam the sidelines but I don’t think even McVae could do that much more with this talent or lack there of. If anything, I have more an issue with the overall old school conservative approach on off which is coming from the head coach trying to save his job.
I completely agree about your comments regarding Mahomes needing no development. Transformative QBs like him are almost guaranteed to succeed no matter where they go, although, that said, they can fail to achieve their full potential if the coaching, system, personnel aren't optimum. OTOH, less-than-transformative QBs CAN be improved with "development", which I would say includes coaching to improve their mechanics, understanding, as well as installing a system that maximizes their strengths, and surrounding him with complimentary talent. This approach has never been done to my knowledge for any Jets QB since Namath, and so far it looks like they're not doing it for Darnold either. This is a big reason why I followed your lead in screaming for Mahomes last year because I KNEW the Jets wouldn't be able to develop him, but he would still be able to be damn good until such time as the Idiot Brothers realized that Bowles & Co were the wrong CS and actually hired someone who DID know how to work with him. I believe Darnold can their FQB - maybe not ever as good as Mahomes, but good enough to win a SB - but he won't get their with Bowles & Bates.
Didn't he call a play action on the very first play from scrimmage? You know who's got a problem with Bates playcalling? Bates.
