or the other thing is fields tape just isn't that good. i've been saying it for a while. meanwhile i praised lamar jackson and wanted to trade down and draft jackson but didn't like mayfield the year we took sam. the media hated lamaar as he's "not a QB he's a RB" nonsense. this has nothing to do with race though. the media always slants towards cocky gunslingers
not saying you in particular but I caugh plenty of shit over not liking mayfield as a prospect. even as far as people here saying I had some personal vendetta against the guy. I just didn't like his film and didn't want us wasting a top 3 pick on him. I don't like fields film either. I said wilson looked the best on film of all the prospects (including lawerence) but obviously competition level matters as well as his frame, height, injury history and "off field" concerns. Even with that I still think wilson is the pick.
I'm the one who said that. and thats because he never makes decisions. he's 1 read is damn near only open. it's not his fault by any means but he had it too easy. never had to make "NFL window" throws really. it makes it hard to judge. his windup is also longer then you'd like, his arm strength is good, but not impressive and he's never had to face a lot of pressure. If his film was to move to a system that works best for him, it would be the RPO toss an easy one into your wide open 1st target or take off running or have the option to see if someone gets open and if not take off or flick it to the RB behind you.
his 1 read is always open. thats the issue and he stares it down then delivers. he's had it too easy on film. he rarely had to "go" just throw layups to the wide open 1st option WR. his delivery is also slow and arm strength lacks without a full windup compared to wilson. the jets offense will want someone with a quick release and quick processor. wilson fits it much better. fields doesn't look like that guy. he has talent but he'll need the right system to work. There is a reason the niners are taking jones over fields and why bellichick loved jones as well. I even said jones way early on over fields as a perfect fit for our offense and felt we could trade back and get jones although that wouldn't be the case as he's going 3rd overall now. fields really isn't a fit for our offense
His decision making is questioned because he hasn't had to progress through reads at Ohio State like he will have to in the NFL. Dwayne Haskins also had a phenomenal TD/INT ratio in college. We all talk about "don't scout the helmet" so much that we've forgotten that doing so isn't entirely without merit. The fact of the matter is that Ohio State's system is very QB friendly and very different from offenses most NFL teams run. Is it more pro-style than when Haskins was there? Sure, that seems true. But how much? I don't think it's much. When you play a system in college that rewards you for staring down your primary receiver you're going to have some growing pains in the NFL where you get punished for doing the same thing. I'm not saying Fields is incapable of improving here, I'm just saying it's something he'll have to work on which will be a challenge.
No way Jones is their guy. You don't trade that much capital for a guy they could have gotten at the 10 spot or later.
niners are skipping fields pro day to go to jones pro day. all the rumors are out. jones is their guy. fields doens't fit their offense. jones does. and it seems jones is also a favorite of the falcons at 4. carolina, denver, and detriot at 7,8,9 are all possible spots for a QB. none of the top 5 Qbs were gonna fall to 12 that they wanted. niners don't want fields or lance. they want wilson or jones or tlaw. top 3 spot guarentees them one. same way the jets wanted baker or darnold and knew the giants were taking barkley so traded up to 3
I don't really understand this big scheme difference or how Wilson's system was all that much different. Wilson played under offensive coordinator Aaron Roderick who coached under Kyle Whittingham who replaced Urban Meyer and is one of Meyer's favorite coaches and football people of all time. Fields plays under Ryan Day who was Meyer's offensive coordinator and eventually took over as the head coach. They're pretty similar downfield passing attack offensive systems based off an RPO style play action. Who exactly is the most recent BYU quarterback to be successful? Jim McMahon? Steve Young? I mean we're literally talking about a different game when we get into those guys. It's also not like the lineage of Ohio State quarterbacks is a bunch of big time busts. There's one bust that was over-drafted. The rest were meddling mid-round picks.
I was actually high on Haskins and thought he would be good for the Redskins. When you look at Haskins tape and production, he looked awesome. He just couldn’t transition his game to the NFL where the defenses are better and faster, and has less time to throw. He’s with Steelers now maybe he will learn from Ben.
BYU doesn't run nearly as many option routes as Ohio State, not that I saw while watching tape at least. They do run some mesh concepts like Ohio State but not as frequently. I don't think Whittingham replacing Meyer in 2004 has much to do with what we're discussing. I understand who Fields played for and his connection to Meyer. I think that's actually a point in my favor, it shows how similar Ohio State's offense is to the one they ran under Meyer. Which, again, is extremely QB friendly because of the prevalence of option routes and mesh concepts. I honestly just can't get the Haskins thing out of my head. I know Fields is a different guy, much sharper and harder working by all accounts. The problem is Ohio State's offense makes this perceived advantage in processing ability largely irrelevant. If you just looked at Haskins' college production you'd get the impression he was some phenomenal decision maker when he just wasn't. I fear we're susceptible to doing the same with Fields. If that offense can make Haskins look like a great decision maker I think it's fair to think it could be doing the same for Fields.
I agree, I think it's due to Ohio State's offense being extremely QB friendly. In fact the system encourages habits that are cause for concern like staring down your primary read due to all the option routes. Staring down your primary read works when you have better athletes around you than anyone you play but it doesn't work in the NFL.
I said the same thing that Fields is not a fit for the Niners. Jones was my second choice for the Jets. If the Niners do this its pretty smart. Let Jones learn for a year under Jimmy G and then turn it over to him.
They're both predicated on deep overs combined with sideline stops, crossers and post/go routes deep down the field off of play action. I don't see much of a difference in the play design that makes Ohio State's system anymore QB friendly than any other. Option routes are all over the NFL although they're generally a bit more predetermined before the snap of the ball based on leverage rather than as the play develops in Ohio State's case. Both will have to adjust to pre-snap reads and adjustments. Mahomes has proved that reading a defense can be taught regardless though.
Agree with the bold, although I would say reading defenses is different than drilling progressions. Option routes reward the QB for locking onto their primary read. Ohio State runs a lot of option routes. A LOT. I don't like a system that rewards behavior that will usually be punished in the NFL. It develops and rewards bad habits for QB's. Ohio State's goal isn't to prepare QB's for the NFL, it's to win games in college where they have more talent than everyone they play. This is done by letting your talent do the heavy lifting and minimizing the chances your QB screws it up by making their job as simple as possible. Again, I'm not saying Fields is incapable of improving on this stuff, just that he hasn't had to do it with any kind of consistency yet. I do think it's fair to expect a large learning curve, though, and it's fair to wonder whether this curve will be too steep to overcome. I just think having to totally rework the way you go through reads is a hell of a lot to expect from a rookie QB given how much faster and more complex NFL defenses are.
They may believe that they couldn't have. Either in this thread or another, someone said that Carolina supposedly really likes Jones. The Panthers new owner is very aggressive. If SF had stayed put, Carolina could have drafted him first. Even if SF traded with the Eagles, Carolina could have jumped them. If they really want Jones, then the #3 pick may have been their only option. Again, this shows how NFL teams value QBs. They don't build their team first and wait until the next year or year after to get their QB. When they see one they really like, they go after him and trade up if they can. Teams aren't always willing to trade down, however. SF is lucky they found a team willing to trade down, especially since Miami didn't really want to sit at #12.
Cam Newton was a beast physically and one of the best college QB in the nation. Won the heisman. He was large, fast and very exciting. He was a superstar and won MVP. He was also drafted 1st overall and and made the superbowl. He was able to run & pass and had an unconventional throwing motion just like I find with Fields. They look quite similar to me in the grand scheme. Just for fun, tell me one white QB that play like Fields? If I came up with Tebow you would have laugh at me more. As for Zach Wilson many comparison I have read is Baker Mayfield or Tony Romo... does it make it racist too? Why not Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott?
Carson Wentz is who he reminds me of. He's more gifted athletically than Wentz but their motions and play styles are similar down to holding the ball for too long and drifting backwards rather than hitting your back foot with urgency. All of those things you listed have nothing to do with play style. Their throwing motions are not similar at all.
So that would be Josh Allen not Carson Wentz. As for player comparison should it really mater? Even less their race, it should never mater. I am not even white myself and I find it ridiculous that we have to go there now when we talk about football. I am not lying to myself there are many racist people in america but in the sport business it is mostly dominated by black people and if we start pointing finger at player comparison or bring the r card everytime we disagree with some people assessment we will never evolve in our society and always play the victim.
