I don't think it's one person's job. Yes, a QB coach is important, but the offensive coordinator needs to design and call plays to best accommodate his strengths and weaknesses and do things in games like get him in rhythm early. MLF did him no favors. I didn't know Zach was playing through so many injuries, though.
Gents, my sincere apologies for postings those articles attributing bad stuff to ZW. I should have checked... I think Burf nailed it with the comment: whereas they were once a team, early in the season, now I see a bunch of confused, disillusioned players that are divided into factions, due to a HC who lost his team, when he allowed all kinds of extraneous nonsense (tantrums, t-shirts, xmas costumes b4 games, etc), to disrupt his team. That to me makes the most sense... JD and RS should be taken to the woodshed by Woody...not fired but (I think he did BTW) put on notice that the end of the season was a down right "cluster F" of the 1st order. In other words, get this team straighten out or I will personally walk you to the door on your way out.. Unfortunately, being a veteran and corporate suit, I have seen my share of these fiascos...
Makes sense, but it would be nice to see some people defending Zach. And yeah, all of that distraction off the field was ridiculous, but no one would have minded if the Jets won games. Instead they did that and lost (sometimes in embarrassing fashion) which was unacceptable.
Speaking of T-shirts, I still can't believe Robert Saleh made those shirts that said "Finish" and put them in their lockers after the season. A season where they started (7-4) and lost their final 6 games. Did the team not realize they needed to finish? Maybe Saleh should have made those shirts 6 weeks ago and put them in their lockers so they could know to finish the 2022 season. Saleh does stuff like that and I just wonder if he knows what he is doing at all? Probably not.
Sorry back, but until this team provides qualified coaching to developing Wilson, I don't think anyone can make an accurate assessment of him. And yes I know that my opinion is in the tiny minority, but no one here has any better qualifications to make this assessment than me from what I've seen. The Zach criticism has been comprised of cherrypicked stats and film, and personal opinion wrapped up as "facts", which they aren't. And let me say AGAIN, I'm NOT "homering" for Zach. If he proves to not be the guy after getting sound coaching and development and plays in a scheme that at least doesn't handcuff him, I'm fine with moving on from him. I'm also fine with having him sit for year or two behind a quality QB and learning from that. But I'm sick and tired of the lousy job the Jets do in developing young QBs! It's gone on for decades now! It's clear at this point that unless they bring in a true "QB guru", this failure will continue, and in that light they need to just sign or trade for a proven vet. EDIT: Inserted "NOT" above.
Looks can be deceiving. To most eyes, White looked fine. IMO, Zach's ability to throw deep as well as his accuracy has been affected by his injuries. I'm not a doctor, nor am I privy to speaking with Zach or anyone inside, but it looks to me like throws he used to make he doesn't now. And no, I'm not excusing him for this entirely. If he really can't play due to injuries he needed to make that known, or he needed to figure out how to make plays regardless.
How did Mike White look fine? He was airmailing guys by ten yards and could barely hit a check down. There was zero change in Wilson in the way he played from year one to year two. Zippo. Nada. You’ve literally latched on to every excuse that exists for him dude. He had a couple of sprains. Aaron Rodgers played all year with a broken thumb on his throwing hand. Donovan McNabb and Roethlisberger may have never been fully healthy in a single game after their rookie years. Football players play through some bumps and bruises especially at the QB position since they’re protected and don’t get hit every play. If you’re telling me Wilson was that affected by small injuries like that, then he’s never going to be able to be a consistent NFL QB anyways.
ok, CC…I agree with your points of view more often than not, but on Zach we just disagree I think…we both acknowledge that he’s not been good…I would say he’s been terrible, like worst in the league terrible, but either way we both say he’s not been adequate. but here’s my bone to pick…the comment about criticism being based on cherry picked stats is absolutely NOT true. You don’t have to cherry-pick stats AT ALL…just take his full career stats or his full year stats (they are pretty consistent year one to year two. Here are the basics: completion rate - year 1 was 54.5%; year 2 was 55.6%; career is 55.2%…these are not cherry picked just raw stats and these rates are bottom three in the league for starting QBs…maybe worst but I’d have to look that up TD to Picks - year 1 was 6 TDs to 7 picks; year two was 9 to 11; career is 15 to 18…again, not cherry picked at all, and negative in each year…I’m more forgiving on this one because young QBs often have this issue…to me the bad sign is that it didn’t improve year over year despite having better talent at receiver and TE Yards / Attempt - year 1 was 6.9; year 2 was 6.1; career is 6.4…this raw stat actually got worse in his second year so not good…not sure how this compares to the overall league average…but it’s probably in the bottom half Yards / Game…year 1 was 187.6; year 2 was 179.5; career is 182.8…yet again this is bottom of the league territory and it got worse with much better talent around him QB rating - year 1 was 72.8; year 2 was 69.7; career is 70.9…again a raw stat and it got worse in his second year. None of these are cherry picked, so I totally disagree with your comment about that. So what is it that you say is being cherry picked? Because these are all basic stats that are all inclusive key stats that reflect a QBs level of play. No cherry-picking on any of these. two things I have to say about these…first, they are all either worst in the league for starters or close to it. Second, we did not see any meaningful improvement in any of these stats, and in fact most got worse. With better talent around him. So I actually disagree that the Zach critics have to cherry-pick stats…we don’t at all…I just laid out the main ones. Right off NFL.com. With a small sample size, stats can be deceiving no doubt. He’s now played 22 games. The small sample size argument no longer carries water, especially even more so because the second year looks almost exactly like the first. Bill Walsh believed by about 25 games at QB will show you what he is…we are just about at that point. next the eye test argument…i watch every game, including a few in person. I’m no pro coach or talent evaluator, but I see the same stupid shit we saw last year…open receivers are not seen, balls are off target, including in the dirt, over their heads, or behind them….way too often. The narrative that he looked better after his injury last year is total bullshit…the stats say his play was almost exactly the same…only one stat improved…fewer picks, but that was due to dialing back the throws…less yards per game, shorter safer throws, etc. so please tell me why you say stats are cherry picked. I think it’s in fact the opposite….the only ones cherry-picking stats are the ones who say he doesn’t suck. Those are the ones who want to take out the throwaways, or take out the drops, or give him credit for TDs that the receiver “almost” made but was tackled at the one yard line. Talk about cherry picking Pleas…let’s put that argument to rest. the stats don’t have to be cherry picked…they scream bust all by themselves. There haven’t been many … or ANY? … QBs who have been this bad in their first two years who were able to turn it around…remember we’re talking Jamarcus Russell / Josh Rosen / Ryan Leaf territory here. The odds are against Zach developing…maybe not impossible, but certainly not looking good right now. If you believe it’s all coaching have at it, but I think it’s more than that
Well, dude, we don't know the severity of his injuries is the point. Nor can we accurately assess their impact by watching on tv or even from the stands, dude. Even if you were a qualified doctor (which I don't think you are, are you?) you couldn't make that assessment from a distance. And yeah, there was a change in how he played from Year 1 to Year 2, dude. IDK how much, if at all, injuries contributed to that, but he did get worse as Year 2 went on. I merely gave my opinion that maybe these injuries might have had something to do with that. I agree that MW did not look fine - to my eyes - and I was one of the first here to post that his poor performance likely was due to the extent of his injuries which most people thought had been "taken care of" with the flak jacket and painkillers. Even many of the sports media - and the game announcers - didn't mention that. The point being that just because a player looks okay, doesn't mean he isn't affected. And sometimes it doesn't take much to have an effect. Look at a pitcher who feels a "twinge" - he might look normal and okay but all of sudden he's favoring it and loses his control or MPHs off his fastball. Same with QBs. Again, I'm saying that this was definitely behind Wilson's struggles. I think it was him being forced to play in an offense not suited to his strengths and more so actually handcuffed him, which led to his loss of self-confidence and things snowballed from there. I'm just saying that in light of this recent report of his injuries that they may have contributed, dude.
Okay, you make a fair point. "Cherrypicked" was a poor choice of words on my part. What I really tried to say was that stats alone can't provide the complete picture, they have to be used in context. And the context everyone keeps omitting is the lousy coaching Zach got, and the hint that LaFleur was actually lobbying against him all along. You're right, the stats by themselves present a damning case against him, but to borrow a phrase from the legal world, they're simply circumstantial, by themselves they don't prove the case IMO. If Zach played under a proven OC and had these struggles I would say, okay I (and Douglas) was wrong about him, but we can see now that LaFleur is FAR from a proven OC. So I'm at this point with Zach: either the Jets hire that proven, experienced OC to work with him and install an offense better suited to his strengths, or ship him off. But anyone making a judgement on him based solely on stats is leaving out a significant part of the equation.
As I said in my previous post, an injury doesn't have to be very great to have an impact, not to mention the cumulative effect of less serious injuries. But if you're certain that they didn't have any effect on him, I guess that's all we need to know, doc.
Here is why opinions on zach are not consistent. With hall and avt healthy he won 5 games. He was not a shining star but did not cost the team games. The remainder of the games the jets played, no matter who the QB, they had terrible line play and no, ZERO, running attack. I doubt if any normal QB could shine under that. I say normal cause superstars can find ways to win, but there are only a few if them. So do we say ZW has some excuse when the line and running collapsed, or do we say ZW showed nothing even under those circumstances . Only time can tell
If minor injuries affect a guy to the point where it makes him the 35th QB in the league then he can’t play football, bro. So whatever side you fall on yields a bad result for your take on it affecting him or not.
Well I also believe that great players or coaches do not take a long time to show they are great…by year three you know pretty much if they have it or not I also believe that great players do not play as badly as Zach has…so to me, I fell pretty strongly that he will never be great…he will not be our franchise QB… so the real question is if he can ever at least be decent… I doubt it, but I guess there’s a chance with better coaching…who knows….but I doubt it no great QB has started as bad as Zach others who played like him proved to be busts
