Zach Wilson - MERGED (All Zach Threads will be merged here)

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by WoodyHarrelson, Dec 22, 2022.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever fallen up the stairs? It happens when you're in a hurry and running up the stairs and trip and your momentum carries upwards. This is how I would describe what it's like for someone with ADD/ADHD: their mind starts processing at a high rate, and as long as they can implement those thoughts everything works fine, but when they "stumble" - in Zach's situation, maybe because he doubts himself on a given play as an example - the mind "trips over itself" and the mental processing breaks down. This in turn can lead to more self doubt and more "stumbling".

    Again, I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist, nor am I privy to any discussions with Zach around this possible issue, but it really makes a lot of sense to me in light of what I saw happen to him.
     
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  2. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    He’s on the medicine, has been for years and has a medical exemption for it as it’s “performance enhancing” for others

    I would think that means he’s past the stage you describe, since we are talking years here, he would likely be able to manage it. If not that was a glaring scouting error. You wouldn’t draft a guy no. 2 overall with a busted knee, you shouldn’t do it if he has a busted attention disorder
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Again, I'm not an expert - and you certainly aren't either - I would welcome someone who is to weigh in on this. There must be someone on this forum who is more informed about ADD/ADHD and how it's treated.

    But in the meantime, I'll say this: the medicine isn't a cure, nor is it equally effective for all people in all settings. While it might well work fine for him in classroom (or filmroom) settings, when he's under duress as in a game, it might not work nearly as well, or perhaps be relatively ineffective.

    If this condition had been seriously taken into account and addressed in how MLF worked with Zach, he may well have absorbed the lessons and then been able to apply them in game conditions without the issues we saw. IOW, simply having ADD/ADHD is not a bar to him succeeding, but it likely does take working with him in other than traditional ways.
     
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  4. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I think lack of confidence is a problem, but Zach's biggest problem is he excelled at BYU playing in a way that made it impossible for him to get to the next level. It's like a high school student who gets top grades by memorizing everything, gets into a top college, and then falls apart because you can't succeed by memorizing everything in college. In Zach's case, he played streetball at BYU (buy yourself time and chuck it downfield when someone gets open, instead of making timing throws like most QBs do), which can get you amazing results but only if you're the most athletic player on the field. He was at BYU, but he isn't in the NFL, and there's nothing he can do about it now.

    Mahomes plays the same way, but Mahomes is the most athletic player on the field even in the NFL, so it works for him (plus Mahomes can make timing throws in addition to the streetball stuff). For most other QBs, you keep doing what you did in college but make incremental improvements until you get to the point you can succeed in the NFL. That path is a dead end for Zach because he can't physically become Mahomes, and I think he's screwed as a result.
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    The thing is that we saw him have some success in the NFL. In light of the fact that he was being asked to play in a system that wasn't conducive to his strengths (and more than likely accentuating his weaknesses), I don't think we can say he can't play in the NFL. It's just going to take designing a system that works best for him. LaFleur wasn't going to do that. He was a "true believer" in the Shanahan Offense and wasn't going to deviate from its principles. In short, he was more invested in his system than the players he had to work with.

    Until proven otherwise, I still believe that given the right system Zach can be really successful.
     
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  6. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Every quarterback who got as many starts as Zach, no matter how big a bust they were, had some decent games and made some highlight reel throws. That's not the same thing as success in the NFL.
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say he was successful? I said "He can be successful IF they develop a system that fits his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses". You know, like successful OCs do.
     
  8. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    You don't design a "system" around a quarterback that can't make simple plays.

    There's no "system" that works with a QB that has a 50% completion rate.
    There's no "system" that works with a QB that can't work the pocket.
    There's no "system" that works with a QB that can't complete short passes over the middle.
    There's no "system" that works with a QB that can't read a defense.
    There's no "system" that works with a QB that can't anticipate open receivers.

    Have I left anything out?

    Exactly what are Zach Wilson's strengths?
     
  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    That 50% completion rate occurred under a system not suited to Zach's strengths, and was certainly affected by injuries and poor play by the OL.

    Zach has worked the pocket. Has he worked it well or consistently? No, but most of the time he did try to remain in the pocket despite it often breaking down.

    He can and has completed short passes over the middle.

    He can and has read defenses.

    He can and has thrown with anticipation.

    There, have I proven in equal measure rebuttals to all your assertions?
     
  10. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    You said "The thing is that we saw him have some success in the NFL." I'm saying that we didn't, unless you're using a definition of "some success" that applies to every quarterback who ever started for two seasons no matter how bad he was.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that he successfully executed plays and won games for the Jets. Was his overall record a "success"? No, not yet. I still think he can be.
     
  12. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    I admire you sticking by Zach... I really do. If you go back to '21 I was touting the kid.
    I thought he would continue to improve as he got used to the speed of the pro game.

    That didn't happen. Instead he got worse.

    Can he be successful in the NFL?
    Magic 8 ball says "doubtful".
     
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  13. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that is exactly right. My thoughts were he can do the things that other QB's can't, he just needs to learn the basic stuff. However, he has not been able to do that so far. Maybe a new coach can help him develop those skills. Maybe not.
     
  14. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    I'm no shrink but I sure wanted to throw him DOWN a flight of stairs several times this season....
     
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  15. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    How about he can be successful in the NFL if he does a better job of doing his job correctly by increasing his application of his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses and errors?
     
  16. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately there are some troubling reportsabout Wilsons work ethic ...
    https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...about_zach_wilsons_work_ethic/s1_127_38375665

    Troubling report emerges about Zach Wilson’s work ethic
    Originally posted on Larry Brown Sports

    The New York Jets have insisted they are not giving up on Zach Wilson heading into 2023, but the quarterback may have to make some serious changes to his worth ethic if he wants to win back the trust of his teammates.

    During a Friday appearance on “The Pat McAfee Show,” Jordan Schultz of The Score said he sees no way Wilson will begin next season as New York’s starting quarterback. The NFL insider believes there would be a “mutiny” if that happened, largely because of the way Wilson carried himself throughout the 2022 season. (emphasis mine)

    “There would be a mutiny if Zach Wilson is QB1 again,” Schultz said. “It’s not gonna happen. … In speaking to some players on the team, his approach, or lack thereof, was not well regarded. Everyone knows this guy is super talented. He could be the franchise, but you want to see a lot more. Whether it’s late to meetings, screwing around in meetings, not having the right attitude, that’s what I gather.”

    That meshes with what Zach Rosenblatt of The Athletic wrote in a lengthy feature he published this week. Rosenblatt was told by sources that Jets players “rejoiced” when Wilson was benched in favor of Mike White after Week 11. Players then “openly grumbled” when Wilson got his starting job back a few weeks later.

    Wilson was benched both because of his poor play and because of the way he carried himself after the Jets’ Week 11 loss to the New England Patriots. It is possible he could show up to offseason workouts with an entirely new attitude, but it sounds like a lot of damage is already done.
     
    #276 SOJAZ, Jan 20, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  17. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    And then there is this ....https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...o_zach_wilson_being_benched/s1_13132_38375180

    Report reveals Jets' locker room reaction to Zach Wilson being benched
    By Colum Dell | Last updated 1/20/23


    To little surprise, QB Zach Wilson's poor play and lack of leadership didn't make him a favorite among his New York Jets teammates.

    According to The Athletic's Zack Rosenblatt, players in the Jets locker room reportedly "rejoiced" when HC Robert Saleh announced journeyman Mike White would replace Wilson as the team's starting QB. The decision came following New York's Week 11 loss to New England, where the Patriots won a walk-off punt return TD.

    Tweet

    Report: After a 10-3 loss to the #Patriots mid-season, the #Jets locker room "rejoiced" that the team decided to bench QB Zach Wilson in favor of journeyman Mike White. When Wilson replaced White weeks later, multiple teammates "openly grumbled" in meetings, per
    @ZackBlatt

    See new Tweets

    read the rest at the site.

    CC, what hapened> You gave up and now your as adamant as before? Maybe the multiple posters on different sites I post on are all wrong like me and your right; but frankly, I have my doubts and I going to postulate, please do not take offense, that I think your arguments emenate more from your own experiences rather then believing your own eyes.

    He can and has completed short passes over the middle. - If your saying that he can based on an occassional throw, then yes your right. However, he has show over and over that he can not... and this reply can be applied to the rest of your statements....

    He can and has read defenses.

    He can and has thrown with anticipation.

    There, have I proven in equal measure rebuttals to all your assertions?[/QUOTE]



     
    #277 SOJAZ, Jan 20, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  18. rscherwin

    rscherwin Well-Known Member

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    Check out Steve Young's statistics in his first two years. I'm guessing this was about the franchise/coach and not the player.

    While I wish I knew more about ADHD, what's more important is that the Jets have invested in it. The ADHD has been public since well before the draft.

    With the recent leaks from, and insights about, MLF ... it is clear that he had no business being near the guy.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. rscherwin

    rscherwin Well-Known Member

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    Very good description.
     
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  20. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    Just as a coach has to design a system around the talent he has on-hand, in order to be successful, a player can only work within the system he's given. If he goes outside that system, he's admonished, told to stay within the system, in other words, they'll tell him to stay "on-schedule," & attempt to reign him into the system.
    Sound familiar?
    I have no idea if Zach will ever even be a functional QB, at this point, with how much damage the Jets did to him, but I saw him regress into an absolute mess, with his on-field confidence beaten down to zip.
    And my problem with all the 'Zach is beyond a bust' crowd, is that they saw it too, but refuse to acknowledge it.

    So, I'd like to see how Zach responds to a coach that actually tries to teach him to be an NFL QB, as opposed to one that tries to force him to be some imaginary QB that coach has in his head... all in the name of proving his rigid system is the 21st century's version of the ten commandments.
    .
     

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