Zach vs Trevor

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by rscherwin, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the Jets have a LOT of rookies and even good rookies don't typically do well in their 1st year. They may show flashes of greatness, but are inconsistent. So assuming the rookies and other young players are true professionals and improve their skills over the off-season, we should see a significant jump in individual performance and thus, team performance. That's why the culture is so important. If you have a winning culture, then the energy and the desire to improve will be stronger. So I think, with the current roster, the Jets would see a substantial improvement next season. On top of that, they will be adding a ton of talent through the draft and free agency, so next year will very interesting.
     
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  2. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    And I wonder if Zach regretted that afterwords and learned a lesson hence his effort to stay inbounds and take it the distance against Jax.

    Slowly he’s learning ….. I’m already looking forward to the offseason to see what they have planned to help him going forward.
     
  3. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    And have you see what happened when he actually did have to throw against Buffalo more than 3 times? Zach does not have this luxury unfortunately. I will be honest, I am very worried about two games coming up against the same Buffalo team and TB - great defenses. Hopefully Moore and Crowder will be back for these, but it is going to be VERY tough for Zach. McGovern is out too now for the year. Hopefully AVT, Fant, LDT, and Moses will play. This is not NE level talent going against Buffalo, which Jones was surrounded with. Huge test for Zach coming up, where the deck is kind of stacked against him.

    Interestingly enough, for all the criticism JD got for not having a good QB back-up, he had White and Josh Johnson going into the season, both of whom ultimately ended up starting (Josh just did for Ravens) and made overall a solid impression. Then JD got Flacco too, who had a decent start as well against Miami. So, for all the talk about not having a QB back-up, this turned out to be a strength of the Jets. I would not be against bringing Flacco back for next year. Joe did well here for a sub last and this year, and his family is in the area (Philly I think), so he might want to stick around for a reasonable price. Also I am not sure Foles will be FA - 8 mil (out of 11 total) is dead cap if he is released.
     
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  4. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    You are spot on. Kid was green as hell and thrown to the wolfs all year with a cast full of growing pains of their own. IMO if he is able to survive without major set back under these circumstances the future might be brighter than what many here feel it will be. On a separate note, the one player I was most disappointed with in regards to helping Zach was Mims. Many here gave the CS shit for not playing him more, myself included, but when given the chance, he was either invisible, holding or completely out of phase.
     
    #84 LAJet, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I agree, we haven't seen that breakout performance from Zach that would convince his doubters, but there is ample reason for that as I and others have outlined. What there HAS been is progress, and that's the key. Given all the other obstacles, expecting a breakout performance is unrealistic, even if we are all anxiously waiting for it. I doubt we'll see it in these last two games though, given the level of competition and the massive holes still remaining around Zach.

    And while his Comp. % is still concerning, it has been increasing. Coupled with the fact that he was second in the NCAA last year in Comp % (just a tiny bit behind Mac Jones), as he becomes more comfortable, and is given dependable receivers to throw to, this is going to change dramatically. Again though, until that happens, people will doubt.

    I don't think you can so easily dismiss the impact of the poor OL play, mediocre - at best - receivers, and a CS also learning OTJ and say Zach needs to simply overcome all of that and do better. Yes, he does have to do better, but he won't until these other areas are improved.
     
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  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Mac Jones looked like a cinch for ROTY - as long as he was coddled in the cocoon of a veteran team with a HOF coach. But when Buffalo took away the ability of the Pats to hide Jones and to make him face a real pass rush and throw, reality reared its ugly head. Don't get me wrong, I think Jones will be a long term success in NE based on his physical and mental ability, and having the benefit of playing for an established winning team, but he sure wouldn't have had anything near the success he's had if he was on the Jets, dealing with what Zach has had to deal with.

    And I share your concern about these next two games. As much as I'd like to see Zach be able to shine and give the Jets a fighting chance, I think given all the holes around him, the much more prudent thing to do is to have him just hand the ball off. These two defenses are going to pin their ears back and come after him like rabid wolves on injured caribou. And anyone who says that's just coddling him needs to apply the same judgment on BB and Mac Jones.

    BTW: from what I saw of that Pats-Bills game, I wasn't all that impressed with Allen's play. His accuracy wasn't all that great - no surprise since he's always struggled with that - so if the "great" Josh Allen can struggle why can't Wilson?
     
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  7. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    just for fun, I pulled the stats for Zach so far:


    Opponent Comp% Yards TD Int Rating

    @ Panthers 54.1% 258 2 1 82.9
    vs Patriots 57.6% 210 0 4 37.0
    @ Broncos 54.3% 160 0 2 42.6
    vs Titans 61.8% 297 2 1 97.3
    @ Falcons 59.4% 192 0 1 63.5
    @ Patriots 60.0% 51 0 0 73.3

    Injury break

    @ Texans 58.3% 145 0 1 58.5
    vs Eagles 60.5% 226 2 1 83.9
    vs Saints 45.2% 202 0 0 59.8
    @ Dolphins 56.5% 170 0 0 80.0
    vs Jaguars 63.6% 102 1 0 89.6

    Total 56.7% 2.013 7 11 67.9


    so what can we see? Seems like after the break the main improvement is really in fewer picks...less TD's though, and generally less yards...they are dialing him back. Completion rate doesn't seem so much different...he had that real clunker against the Saints, but broke 60% twice compared to only once before the injury.

    The numbers are not great...rating-wise, he is the lowest ranked starting QB I think, unless you consider guys like Cam Newton and Taysom Hill starters, as they are lower rated. For comparison, Lawrence's rating is 70.6, with a 58.7% completion rate, 3,225 yards, and 9 TDs vs 14 picks. Not significantly better by any means.

    This of course ignores his running, as he's scored a few rushing TDs and really impacted the Jags game with his legs, which is good for a young QB.

    in any case...definitely room for improvement in the completion rate and yards per game (this data pull didn't include actual completions and attempts, so I didn't get the Yard per Attempt stat, which is also good to see, but he's made progress in reducing picks which is good.

    hopefully we can get better OL play and better weapons for him next year.
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff. And it clearly shows that Zach has to keep progressing. And it supports the idea that the CS has dialed him back after the injury break. What I think it also shows behind that last point is that Zach has listened and is applying the lessons. This bodes well for him making that big improvement once they get a better supporting cast around him.
     
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  9. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    He scored 4 rushing TDs since the break too. That is a lot, and cannot be discounted. Total 4 TD and 9 INT before the break, and 7TD (3 pass/4 rush) and 2 INT after the break. That is a big difference. Also, after the break he had less weapons as guys have been injured a lot. He improved in spite of that. Yes, he was dialed back, because there is no one to pass to. It's clear he is improving a lot, and I think if he had a good supporting cast we would see a breakout game. Hard to have one though when being pressured all the time from banged up offensive line and no one to pass to.
     
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  10. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    I said this in another thread. I'd like to see LeFleur challenge Zach with situational offenses against top defenses in real time. In other words, Start the game out instead of the usual gut run, try the hurry up. Run specific drills and create scenarios for Zach to get a feel for and eventually master.

    Its not like we're winning either one of those games coming up so, instead of having Zach do 7 step drops and running for his life, why not go a bit deeper in the playbook and try new things out. I'm not saying do things you haven't practiced, but think outside the box and use these last 2 games as lessons aka: teachable moments for ZW.

    Eventually, if he's to become a FQB, he will have to master different scenarios and be effective running plays designed for certain situations. The only way that happens is with experience doing them until those situations become second nature.
     
  11. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    For me it all comes back to "would the owner be comfortable with that approach" and I don't know that I've seen anything to tell me yes.
     
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  12. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    So far, Woody has kept his mittens to himself and we can only hope it stays that way well into the future.. Its up to the CS to develop ZW and mold him into the FQB they hope he will become when they drafted him. Experience is and always will be the best teacher.
     
  13. WhiteShoeWillis

    WhiteShoeWillis Well-Known Member

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    I doubt Woody would even recognize the difference.
     
  14. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Well I gotta rant.

    Its that time of year when we're so beat down we just start drifting in fantasy land. That next year the best case scenario will happen and we dream that we are in a position for it to happen. When in reality it wont and were not.

    So, people need to berate the other rookie QBs so they can believe Zach has been better than he has - or will be better, etc. For the record, Mac Jones has been light years better than Wilson, and he has usually had worse WRs to throw to. Still we have posters claiming what they see now is as good as Jones is going to get. In the meantime Wilson is still mini Mahomes waiting to explode. This take is hilariously homeristic. Jones has given every indication he will continue to grow and improve over the next years. To a much less extent, so has Zach. So realistically the prognosis is that Jones will continue to develop on a Manning'esque curve while we're stuck hoping Wilson can become something closer to what his backups have been for us this season.

    Which again calls into question the excuses we make for him, like young team, lack of talent, rookie staff, blah blah. It didn't stop Mike White from throwing for over 400 yards against the Bengals. It didn't stop Josh Johnson from throwing for 300 yards in only 3 quarters against the Colts. It didn't stop creaky bones Flacco from getting a 101 QBR against Miami. Literally the only QB our (insert excuse here) has prevented from flashing is Zach Wilson.

    Those results make all the excuses people have made for Zach look like what they are, excuses for poor QBing. We used the 2nd pick on a not ready for prime time player, and that's the actual reality of our situation. We used the 2nd pick on a QB that at the minimum should have sat this year, which means he wasn't worth the 2nd pick. It was a bad call, bad choice - bad usage of the second pick.

    What we have left is the hope he can become what you imagined him to be during the draft. Though he has not shown many indications he can even ascend beyond average.

    Sorry but I'm done with the excuses. We have been making excuses for our QBs for the last 10 years and I don't have the will to make them anymore. Zach had a bad season because he has played poorly and we're stuck clinging to hope when he plays better than crap. For the record I hope he does return next year and explode into Mini Mahomes. But I wont spend all offseason pretending it will happen. SOJ.
     
  15. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    The Flacco trade screamed Woody to me.
     
  16. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Solid point.
     
  17. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    On Zack's 50 yrd TD run he was dead to rights after about 10 yards and could have dipped out of bounds, as the defender assumed he was going to do (and the defender let up, thank god for Zack's sake!) but Zack held his course and continued down the field. There was a second chance closer to the EZ where a defender assumed Zack was going to dip out and he pulled up, which let Zack continue on for 7.

    Point is, Zack traded an EZ dip out of bounds to avoid a huge hit for rolling the dice, and he won. I haven't heard from either Jags defenders who let up assuming Zack would take the EZ road (and they didn't want to have 15 yards tacked onto his run). But it took balls for Zack to keep running. Hats off to him on that run!
     
  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see them let Zach off the chain and let him rip... not sure who's gonna be on the other end of his throws though.
     
  19. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Zach is getting another belt this week!
     
  20. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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