Ok Bleed thank you for this Post because frankly what my eyes see , and what Vilma observes are absolute truths and thats both scary and depressing We have to look at other Rookies with mega talent like Wilson and calm down (actually calming myself lol) . So lets see him morph into j Allen by next season I supported all of NCs posts on predraft Zach and how great he will become Now we sit and wait ..but unfortunately for me its Doubting Thomas time and I am just sick with this
Go back and watch it the throw hit Crowder in the hands and he dropped it. The missed screen pass was on the best drive of the day. We settled for FG but probably would have scored on that screen.
It took a couple of years for Allen to morph into a quality QB. Here is a comparison of the two quarterbacks in their first five starts per Rich Cimini:
How would you compare him to that Firehydrant K Murray? Now he's in second year right? Guy is a little dynamo and zips that ball !
That's interesting to compare their passing stats but Josh Allen brings a whole different dimension that Wilson doesn't. Allen is built like Roethlisberger in his younger years and brings the mobility and being able to run when he needs to. And he's an effective, physical runner at that which defenses have to respect. Not the case with Zach.
Zach is pretty mobile too. He's lacks the sturdy build of Allen, but, certainly moves around the pocket pretty well and has had success eluding defenders. He just needs to learn how to slide instead of taking such brutal hits from opposing defenders.
This thread surprises me, @FrontOfficeFanatic. So ridiculous. I am fine with saying Wilson lost the Patriots game, could have made the Titans win easier, and played bad in London yesterday, but everything else is mind-blowingly awful and too quick to assume. Why bring up Herbert and Mahomes? Why bring up an (0-5) Jaguars team? Why assume Wilson is doomed to be like Alex Smith? None of that even crossed my mind through 5 games. His inaccuracy has been an issue on some easy throws, but he can and will improve that. He already knows how to do the difficult stuff, now he just needs to learn the easy stuff. It's a good problem to have. He was thrown into the fire and has handled it pretty well, in my opinion. This thread will not be bumped in 2 years because it will be forgotten, as people already know what a bad take it is.
This reminds me of the 2010 AFC Championship Game in Pittsburgh. People blamed Mark Sanchez (as usual) after the game. However, he led them back to 24-19 and just needed a defensive stop to get a chance to go win the game. The defense failed and the Steelers went to the Super Bowl. Yesterday Zach Wilson had a bad first half too, but led the Jets back to 20-17 and just needed a defensive stop to go win the game. The defense failed miserably and the Falcons won 27-20. It's a team sport. I get the logic that better QB play doesn't put your team in some of those positions, but I don't get the fans that only see one angle of it.
Please keep It in perspective though. It wasn't just a bad first half. He had 65yds passing with 9 minutes left to go In the 4th quarter. That's not good enough. The main reason we get back into this game was due to a massive return by our special teams unit. On that drive even. Wilson had 8 yards of passing. The run game did the rest. Wilson caught a PI down by the endzone with a pass that was off, shouldn't have been thrown, and would have easily been picked off If the DB turned to the ball. It was a lucky PI to bail out a otherwise bad decision. 70 of the 127 additional yards that Wilson picked up after the 9 minute mark In the 4th were due to a prevent defense (garbage time yards) due to time constraint and us being down two scores. We still only managed a field goal. The comeback wasn't because of Wilson. It was despite Wilson. There is no way to view his performance as good. Horribly thrown balls, all day. Bad throwing mechanics, all day. Bad decisions, all day. Bad production, all day. Again. This was a team failure. Not just Wilson. However. Trying to put a positive spin on It like this isn't accurate either. IMO.
I agree with that, but saying Zach Wilson lost the Jets this game (Which is part of the thread title) is wrong to me. The entire team was terrible. If the defense played amazing, which I feel they did against the Patriots, then it is fair to put most of the blame on Wilson and the offense. If the the Jets defense held the Falcons and got Wilson the ball back with 5 minutes left down 20-17, then he instantly throws an interception, I could see a fan blaming him for the loss. I don't know if he would have lost the game, because the defense did not give him a chance. He plays pretty well in the 2nd half and the Falcons are known for blowing big leads, I legitimately thought he could win the game for the Jets if given an opportunity. Now we will never know. I understand he played bad for most of the game, but the team had a chance to win at the end and the defense failed again, as they had most of the first half. You can play bad most of the game and find a way to win at the end. Many of the great QB's do it. He wasn't given a chance yesterday. I also understand the fact that the Falcons defense is nothing special. They end up in a lot of shoot outs and the Jets offense was horrendous most of the game. Very bad complimentary football yesterday by the Jets, as it has been most of the season so far.
You know I always appreciate your opinion and I find we agree more often than not-- I just don't have a good feeling about ZW so far, DK. The improvisational stuff and arm strength are for sure impressive and I don't doubt the kids character and work ethic--my main concerns are him being able to carry over his accuracy and anticipation on tot his next level. I was very impressed in the preseason and didn't buy into the notion that his success was due to vanilla defenses (my misstake). I was sold that we had our guy and perhaps that's distorting my view now. I've watched all the rookie QB's at this point--in terms of "poise" which I believe is the most important ingredient for all these guys--I see it the most with Jones and Lawrence. They shown confidence in how they operate and don't make the same kind of misstake I have seen out of ZW so far: the hesitation induced ints and incompletions. I would compare to the half swing strikeouts you see in baseball. This is not saying I would have drafted Jones before ZW, I would not have changed our pick FYI This is just portraying why I feel the way I do through the games already played, nothing more nothing less. I hope you guys can poke fun of me in two years and bump this take--I will gladly have a laugh at my expense as our team racks up wins. Because I do believe: IF our young defense continues to improve & IF ZW turns into what we are all hoping he will be & IF we surround him with more talent and protection next offseason--this team will be worth watching. Cheers
The vast majority on this board was laughing at BUF for drafting Allen. I don’t remember anyone laughing at the Wilson pick. Not sure why we are comparing them. They are completely different prospects.
He was mobile against the Coastal Carolinas of the world. Not so much in the NFL. Usually a young QB is mobile in the NFL right out the gates. Allen was no exception as I remember how fearless he was running from Day 1 in the league. I don't think Zach will ever be on that level of mobility as a pro. He's pretty fragile. We all should hope he really develops as a pocket passer more.
Shit, even he who shall remain nameless w/ his 4.4 speed is finding out that he can no longer out run everyone like he could in the Big 10. It’s a different ball game. To Zach’s credit he’s shown advanced pocket awareness for his age. That won’t amount to shit though if his ball placement doesn’t improve.
We are talking about them because of a comment made during last nights Chiefs/Bills game where Chris Collinsworth noted Allen's early struggles in the league trying to win it all with long bomb throws. Not unlike Zack Wilson. Allen has since matured and flourished. I posted a comment discussing this point on page seven of this thread.
Yeah, that is why your original post doesn't make sense to me. I'm fine with those takes through 5 weeks, but I don't like that you just assume he won't improve or play a lot better, because it is highly likely that he will. One thing I will say about the interceptions is that Zach doesn't lack poise or confidence when he throws most of them. He may have too much confidence in himself. Especially the Patriots game. He needs to settle down and not force balls. He has learned from that game, but still makes poor decisions from time to time. He is a rookie on a team coming off a (2-14) season, so I don't want to be too tough on him. We all expected growing pains, and especially at the beginning of the season, so I don't understand how any fan wants to jump ship on Wilson already. I agree Trevor Lawrence looks pretty good too, but he was the #1 pick. Can't take out the Jets winning 2 games last year on Wilson. Fine, you changed my mind @FrontOfficeFanatic, we will bump the thread in 2 years to poke fun at you!
Allen was able to supplement his poor passing numbers with his running and a physicality which kept his team competitive as he continued to developed. What can Wilson lean on as we wait?
Allen could mature and be taught the value of not playing hero ball as the Bills had a pretty good team and made it better around him. It's not unexpected that TLaw and Zach will put up crumby numbers considering the squads around them and I've no doubt that if either of them had somehow lasted past the #2 pick then they'd be in RotY conversation right now.
Yes, JD needs to make sure he uses this off-season to set Zach up for success, right now the Jets are projected to be 4th in cap space for next year; they also have 2, 1st round picks and 2, 2nd round picks.
I have to be honest with you, my head hasn't even gone there. Hey, if its someone's opinion that looking at form, arm strength, accuracy, attitude etc, and their conclusion is, yes its early but I do not believe he will be a good QB in the NFL...I can understand that...may not agree with it...but I understand people see things...they form an opinion. I guess what I'm struggling with is judging him for winning and losing games 5 games into his career. I mean, who cares. I remember turning to my brother years back...he is a Giants fan and telling him, Eli Manning is not the guy. No way. He was so incredibly inaccurate. It was alarming...and it was the talk of every sports radio show. How can this guy end up being a good QB? He is missing almost everybody. But quickly it became he was extremely accurate one game and couldn't hit a barn the next...and so the story goes. You can kill Zach with his college schedule...competition...etc. But I am sure many have watched his entire tape of 2020 and yeah...even 2019. Accuracy? Its not even on my list of concerns. Watching every game so far, this kid seems to be guilty of one major thing. He believes he can win every game with the next pass. He is a gutsy kid who right now is just all over the place. Personally, I cant wait for his next game. Pretty good chance I may be disappointed. Still, cant wait.
