Yes - I think SF fell into Purdy - if Shanahan is such an offensive genius how come he had Trey Lance running up the middle like a fullback and did absolutely nothing to develop a player that they spent 3 first round picks to acquire? How come Jimmy G (after an amazing first few games) has done next to nothing at QB and has been carried by having some great skill players like Deebo and Kittle and a really good O-line (and now C Mac)?
Again, to be fair, I think MW was hurt much more than the Jets let on because they put themselves in a no win situation by deactivating Zach and leaving themselves with only the Flacco Statue or the Canadian Wonder Streveler as backups. It's as poor a job of managing personnel as I've seen in a while, and the blame has to start with Douglas for not getting better backups on the roster to start the season. Obviously once you get into the season there's not much you can do, although I tend to think anyone would've been better than Flacco or Streveler, and that leads me to my point that it was dumb to deactivate Zach as bad and inconsistent as he's been. It was clear that MW couldn't play unless they got a great running game going, which for whatever reason they couldn't. Once they had to rely on White's passing it was game over. At that point why not bring in Zach? At least he was healthy and who knows might've brought some needed energy in. Yesterday was a SOJ rerun.
unless there was something we were not aware of, deactivating ZW for yesterday's game was beyond dumb.
Zach gets hurt when scrambling and running. He’s not built to take the pounding. Most people aren’t unless you’re Josh Allen or Daniel Jones.
I agree, but he was playing with broken ribs. Foles got carted off the field when he took the rib shot yesterday. Zach being a complete flop wasn’t expected by the staff or FO. Now yesterday, The issue was we gave up 17 points very fast. Our defenses have had poor starts under Mike White by coincidence. We haven’t held an opposing offense for the last 5 games.
Even Steve Young said that at this point Zach should not play. He needs to fix commodity QB items before he can play. That will take some time. It may do him more harm than good getting him out there. I also am not ready to say Mike White's performance yesterday is explained by the injury. In fact, I doubt it is. The reads were bad. Short passes were behind all night. Doctors also did cat scan to pass him for full contact and he never missed a practice. Last preseason 2 games, last year 3 games, this preseason 3 games, this year 4 games, the sample size is growing now with each game. When looking at all of this in aggregate I for one see a talented guy capable of having a very good game, but also inconsistent player who can lay an egg. Hopefully we can add one more game to his evaluation next week. With each game we learn more and more and because of a small sample size, each game matters a lot.
That's why I was saying before that Mike was not fragile - if other people take hits like that, they would be injured too, and Foles is an example. However, I just don't know if the ribs is the reason for White's poor performance, because in aggregate his overall performance now looks identical to last year, to the preseason this and last year. It may be just what Mike White is. Defense didn't do White any favors early, but they had enough stops where White could easily get back in the game, but instead sucked. Tampa did that yesterday - down 14:0, but then clamped down some. This is not an excuse to suck drive after drive on offense. And btw, I am not blaming it all on White. Now we have multiple QBs sucking with MILF as OC.
So we can put to bed the conspiracy theory that White was held out the two prior weeks by the order of Jets management/ownership? I would say so because as shitty as White looked yesterday, I can only imagine what he would have looked like in the Detroit game. Kudos to him for going to all those doctors but he's lucky no one was stupid enough to let him play.
Mike White has a passer rating of 75.7 and a QBR of 37.5. For comparison purposes Wilson's are 72.8 and 37.2 respectively. White's TD% is 1.7% which is actually worse than Wilson's (hard to believe.) And this all includes a game where he had a 149.3 passer rating and threw for 3 TD's. Think about that. If he stinks it up in Miami he may finish with lower ratings than Wilson and Wilson is terrible. We need a new QB.
Yes, if you are a "running QB", or a QB who frequently makes running a part of his game. I'm not saying Zach should be that type of QB, but he has the athleticism to run more than he does. IDK if not running more is his choice or MLF's choice. I tend to think it's MLF's because at BYU he ran a lot more than he has here, although maybe that first injury "cured" him of that desire. If that's the case, that's troubling as it would indicate that he's become contact shy, and with the overall poor pass pro he's gotten from the OL I could see that as a possibility.
Yes, I agree that Zach shouldn't play unless necessary. Yesterday was just such an occasion IMO. He's certainly not going to miraculously cure all of his faults in a couple of quarters, he does need to have an extended stretch on sitting on the bench to hopefully fix his problems. And hopefully by next year the Jets will have a better QB situation where he can be the #3 guy and stay on the bench to learn. But right now he's their second best option IMO. Suggesting that he be the backup to MW for this last game isn't because I think it will help him in any meaningful way, but because I think it would help the Jets more than going to Flacco or Streveler. As for White's performance, unless we talked to White while reviewing the film we have no way of knowing what he was seeing or what reads he was or wasn't going through. In my opinion I think he knew he was very limited in the types of throws he could make and consciously or unconsciously chose not to try them. As for throwing behind, again, if he was in pain he would be "flinching" or hesitating a fraction before throwing and that would cause him to be behind on his throws. We all know the doctors are primarily influenced by what the team tells them they need. The Jets needed White to play, so they "cleared" him. That doesn't mean they believed he could play at 100%, only that he could suit up and likely not cause himself more harm - and on that point I don't think that would've prevented them from clearing him if the team insisted. Bottom line, I don't think the Jets or anyone learned anything that would prove that MW can be counted on to be the starter next year or to build upon going forward. Nor will he show anything next week if he plays. Sucks for him that he got hurt and couldn't do more to show he's the guy, but them's the breaks. When all is said and done, Douglas needs to go get a proven vet, hopefully not a JAG but someone who can take them to the SB and win. After that, if White is amenable to a reasonable contract to stay and be QB#2, then they should keep him. The final piece is what to do about Zach. None of us - repeat none of us - know enough of what they've seen in Zach to be able say whether they should keep him and try to get him to be the FQB they obviously thought he could be when they used a #2 pick on him, or trade him and maybe find that QB#3 in the draft. I suspect it will depend on if JD can get a good enough offer for Zach.
Hey now.... I'm not saying MLF is that good... but without a decent quarterback and a functional O-line it's tough sledding.
I would have taken Flacco at some point yesterday. Fuck, even Streveler. White, whether due to injury or just an off game, was awful and gave the Jets zero chance to win a game they absolutely had to win. He's lucky he didn't throw 5 interceptions. If he was limited due to injury, and hasn't improved dramatically by Sunday, there is no way he should start. It serves no purpose. We are eliminated from the playoffs and we run the risk of White further injuring himself in a meaningless game.
he got hurt when hit by a summer breeze in the preseason. Missed 3 games he’s not a running QB. Running QBs run forwards not backwards
In retrospect the thing that bothers me the most about this whole thing is not even that JD fell in love with Zach and missed out on Fields (although that's probably close second), but that he didn't wait for Daboll. I think @REVISion and some others at the time were bringing up a point about needing to hire an offensive minded HC. I thought with MILF and Knapp it will not be an issue, but boy did it blow up in our face. Daboll comes into terrible Giants team, and takes to the play-offs first year. D Jones from near bust looks like he earned himself a big second contract. In the meantime Zach has regressed and offense looks putrid for us. Flacco and White also had terrible games at QB. Saleh, a defensive coach, actually fixed the defense. We can argue whether they are great or not, but it doesn't suck if your defense is #3 in yards and #4 in scoring, while having one of the worst starting positions and possessions in NFL. The problem is that offense was more critical for us with a young QB, and Daboll had a proven record of developing a low floor high ceiling QB like Josh Allen. A monumental miss in retrospect. If Daboll were here, who knows maybe Zach's story would be different too. But where we are now - Zach is not ready to play. If Steve Young is saying that, the guy who is basically his mentor, I don't see how he could have helped us at this stage - yesterday. Streveler outplayed him by a lot against the Jags and could have gotten the call when White sucked, but Zach should continue to be inactive. We might need to disagree, but I am not convinced White sucked due to the injury. We do agree that he has not done enough for the Jets to look at him as a starter for 2023. A back-up maybe, I still think he has some potential, even at 28. As far as MILF, he's had a rough go. Having terrible OLine didn't help. It's a 50/50 for me whether he need to be replaced or not. On one hand if we can add someone like Reich instead of Calabrese it could greatly help. On the other - Reich most likely would want to be an OC. I also don't think Saleh would file MILF - the family connections are too deep. They will probably end up going together if they fail next year.
I was one who wanted Daboll back then, but Saleh came highly rated from a team with a deep winning tradition, and like you I thought MLF - although not an experienced OC - did have experience in a good system so I was hopeful. It was a bad mistake in hindsight. Not that Saleh is as bad as Gase or Bowles or even anyone since Parcells, but he's still learning and he's definitely clueless on the "O" side of things. Yes, the "D" is much better, but we needed more help on "O", and have for decades. Going to a defensive HC again was just SOJ. I'm not saying we should fire Saleh...yet, even if they lose next week, but I'm only willing to give him one more year. As for LaFleur, maybe some day he might become a good OC or even a good HC but that's years in the future. We need much better right now.
