Nothing wrong with Gary Carter either. He's not in the class of Seaver or Ruth, Gehrig, Dimag.............but certainly an all-time great.
Seeing as how the Yankees have made the playoffs for however many straight years, I would say yes, that their roster "automatically" makes them a good team. Baseball is, at its heart, a sport about one on one matchups. Batter vs pitcher, etc. Not to mention that over the course of an 162 game season it is very rare that the cream does not rise to the top. In the NFL if your team gets in a funk and you lose 4 in a row that can cost you your season. What you mention about Boston is more of a team chemistry issue, which really has nothing to do with the manager. Either people like each other and get along or they don't. The manager is not going to make teammates friends.
God knows that the Yankee teams of 77 & 78 absolutlety hated each other but were talented enough to win.
Yeah, but that wasn't the argument. Alio posted the your heroes versus our heroes thing, and Carter was one of 'our heroes'. My point is that there's nothing wrong with Gary Carter. He was a great player.
Shades point was how Seaver was the best better than any Pitcher the Yankees produced. If that is not the case than no way was Seaver was better than Ruth.
Doesn't that go with the Carter thing? My point is, start talking about Met heroes with one name. Tom Seaver.
That I agree with which is why I used MM in the beginning. Tom is by far the best player ever for the Mets. Produced or not.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO Seaver 311 205 2.86 656 647 231 61 1 --- 4782.2 3971 1674 1521 380 76 1390 3640 Whitey Ford 236 106 2.75 498 438 156 45 10 --- 3170.1 2766 1107 967 228 28 1086 1956 Red Ruffing 231 124 3.47 426 391 261 40 8 --- 3168.2 2995 1406 1222 200 31 1066 1526 Mel Stottlemeyer 164 139 2.97 360 356 152 40 1 --- 2661.1 2435 1003 878 171 44 809 1257 Lefty Gomez 101 3.34 367 319 173 28 9 --- 2498.1 2286 1087 927 138 19 1090 1468 Ron Guidry 170 91 3.29 368 323 95 26 4 --- 2392.0 2198 953 874 226 13 633 1778 Now keep in mind, Seaver's stats there are for his entire career. All of the Yankees, are just their stats in Ruth's House. Seaver's stats with the Mets, including the second time around for a year. 198 124 2.62 401 395 171 44 1 --- 3043.7 2431 953 870 212 52 847 2541 Still want to talk history?
I guess as a National League fan you wouldn't be exposed to the same news stories we were as AL East fans. Nothing wrong with that, but allow me to clarify. It was widely publicized how Terry Francona kept control over the media exposure to the team. There were huge problems with Pedro, but Francona would let him leave the park early so he could avoid the media. The team freaked out initially, but Francona was able to diffuse it, so much so that the team actually embraced the idea of Pedro making it back to the hotel before the game was done. He also handled Manny like a genius. Hence the whole "Manny being Manny" thing. By contrast, let's look at Herm Edwards. He had more than enough talent to win big games. And we still spent too many Januarys watching other teams play for the title.
Don't misundestand. I liked Carter, a lot. He was beyond a class act, and is rightfully a hero. All I was saying was that when comparing club history, our hero list spans quite a few more pages in the books than the Mets. I'll never knock Carter, like I said, he was always a class act.
Umm, looks like a lot of numbers. W means wins, L means losses, ERA is Earned Run Average, do I need to go on? Point being, you claim Seaver was better than any pitcher the Yankees ever produced. I would have to beg to differ. None of those Yankee stats include post-season performance either. In terms of strike outs, Seaver pretty much trumps all. In terms of everything else, he is pretty much even. If you look closely, you can see that Seaver has about 1600 more strikeouts than Ford. If you look even more closely, you will see he also has about 1600 more innings pitched. Not that one K per inning is anything to knock, but if Ford had the same number of innings, I'm not so sure the sheer count would be so different.
Your so off base its not even funny. Ford was a great pitcher, Seaver is one of the best ever. Inner circle Hall of Fame. Seaver recieved the highest % of votes for the Hall of fame. Higher then Ruth, Cobb, Aaron, Walter Johnson, anyone.
As always, you can thank Shade for steering a Yankee thread off course. One dig and the rebuttles fly. :rofl: He's the CJ69 of the BS forum. :smile:
