I think that Mel gets blamed for really not developing any young arms. Pettite was here before Mel as was Rivera. Besides those 2, how many highly touted youngsters faltered in the Bronx before getting shipped out for veterans?
plus, how many pitchers came to New York and sucked balls after great success elsewhere....couldnt play in NY? maybe some of em.....but some of it could have been the Mel....not a big fan
It's easy to win championships as a pitching coach when you have great veterans who know what they are doing (Clemens, Cone, Key, Wells, etc.) and young guys who were developed by the previous regime (Pettitte, Rivera). He's horrible with young pitchers, I'm sure that if he's being honest, he'd admit his "teaching" skills are not his strong point. He tries to make every pitcher pitch the way he did, even if that's not their strong point. The fact that he's so anti-strikeout because he wasn't a strikeout pitcher is alarming, and it led to him (along with drugs) ruining Gooden. The rest of Javier Vazquez's entire career is in question now because Mel let him go so long pitching with horrible mechanics. He's just a bad pitching coach. I refuse to give him credit for winning championships with some of the best pitchers of the last 15 years, yet being so horrible with pitchers that actually need their pitching coach to guide them, his refusal to teach pitchers anything but what HIS style was even if that will hurt them, and his refusal to embrace modern technology to evaluate pitching (something that Cashman demanded when he first took complete control, and it's something that Guidry and Kerrigan love.)
How many young, highly touted arms did we have? he doesn't get any credit for Mo or pettite even though he was the PC in Mo's 1st full year and 1st year as a reliever? and he doesn't get credit for Andy's 2nd full year? Andy knew it all by year 2? Where were the young arms he had a chance to develop? He did well w/ Mendoza, did you consider brian boehringer, Todd erdos, Mike Jerzembeck and Mike Buddie big prospects? and why doesn't he get any credit for Wang? Wang was the only quality young arm we really saw. I'm not saying give him a mug w/ "World's Greatest pitching Coach" on it but he gets far too much blame for their failures and far too litle credit for their success.
They might not have been "top" prospects but Mel wasnt able to bring out the best in them. Dave Duncan and Leo Mazzone might have been able to get more out of those guys but Duncan and Mazzone are 2 of the best PC's in baseball. Here are a few good young pitchers that the Yankees had that were eventually traded away. Eric Milton, Marty Janzen, Matt Drews, Ted Lilly, Yhency Brazoban just to name a few. These few did not become "superstars" at all with the Yankees or with their new teams but have made it to the show and have either had at least a successful season or were highly touted. Since Steinbrenner has taken over the Yankees have generally favored acquiring pitchers instead of grooming them as developing pitching may be the most difficult thing a system can do. Ron Davis, Ron Guidry, Dave Righetti, Dennis Rasmussen, Scott Kaminecki, Sterling Hitchcock, Andy Pettite & Mariano Rivera are part of a small class that you could consider to be successful pitchers to come through the system. Would this be Mel's fault or someone else's. In my opinion though, I have always thought that Mel is just better with established veterans then with kids.
I give Torre more credit for noticing how talented they were. Pettitte was on the fast track to being a good starter under Showalter, and Rivera was mis-used by Showalter. I guess you can try to give him some sort of credit for them, but partial credit for 2 guys out of all the other young pitchers he's hurt isn't very impressive. He had a history of this pre-Yankees, and with the Yankees. He tries to get pitchers to change the grip on their pitches, trying to get them to pitch smarter, and cut back on trying to strikeout hitters with raw power only. It's a nice plan on paper, but it doesn't work for everyone. He did it with Lilly, and he did it with Vazquez. Instead of trying to get them to pitch like him, he should try to work to their strengths. That's the mark of a good pitching coach. Mel doesn't do that. It's not hard to believe that he may have had a positive impact on Wang... and that's because he's the same style of pitcher as Wang!
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6444110 "We've got a pitching plan for each (prospect) based on where they are in their development," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman says. The plan for Hughes? Cashman won't say, other than to promise, "We will execute it." "I view all of these individuals, if they've got talent, as long-term assets," Cashman says. "You've got to treat them as such, make sure you're careful. You try not to have anything come at the expense of the long-term asset for short-term gains." That's something new for the Yankees, who routinely took a win-now approach before Cashman assumed greater control in the 2005-06 off-season. At one time, the Yankees did not hesitate to trade prospects of Hughes' caliber. Now they've seemingly assembled enough pitching depth to allow Hughes to develop at his own pace.
On the topic of an extension for Posada, I think that we should resign him to a one or two year extension. I guarantee you that we won't be able to find better numbers than his on the open market, even in his bad seasons. BTW, did anybody catch this article about A-Rod sidestepping questions about potentially opting out of his deal after this season? I doubt he'd do it (it would be leaving way too much guaranteed money on the table), but I can always dream...
I'd like to keep Posada for the near term. The only issue is his knees. How much longer can he stay healthy? He's worth the risk short-term though. As for ARod, how about he just remembers how to play ball? It's not like he doesn't have the potential. As much as he pissed me off last year, if he can make himself a comeback, and put up the numbers he is capable of, there is no reason to discuss him leaving. Of course, this assumes he gets whatever it is in his head that tells him to suck out, but I would still rather see him perform here rather than elsewhere.
I agree on Posada. Even if he declines, he's still a top 10 catcher, arguably top 5. No one in the system will be ready for 2 years minimum. Nothing really to say about A-Rod. If he's the regular A-Rod this season, then he'll be back and everyone will be happy. If he's 2006 A-Rod, then he's probably gone... and everyone will be happy. Wait and see.
Outside of Lilly they were all trdaed before they got a shot w/ the Yankees. Milton never pitched a game for us, Janzen was trdaed for Cone in '95 so mel wasn't even w/ the yanks when he was on the farm, Matt Drews was trdaed for cecil fielder in july '96 so mel barely got a chance to work w/ him and he never even made the majors- was that mel's fault? Brazoban never pitched in a ML game for the Yankees. How does he get blame for these players but no credit for Wang?
I hope this doesnt become a distratction. The Yankees have no plans to discuss an extension with Mariano Rivera this spring, a source told the Bergen Record. A surprise. Rivera, a free agent at season's end, said in November that he'd like to play three more years. The Yankees must figure they'd have no more difficulty re-signing him in November than they would in March.
I don't get that. Cashman hasn't shown an unwillingness in the past to discuss extensions in the spring. The only reason he didn't with Matsui was because Matsui didn't want it to be a distraction, and he came from Japan where they honor a contract to completion. Well, it doesn't really matter, he's going to be re-signed no matter what. Unless of course he hits the wall and becomes a bad pitcher or something.
That makes zero sense. Could Cashman be doing the unthinkable and considering moving on from Rivera? That would be flat out stupid. Sure, Mo could hit that wall this year, but does anyone really believe that will be the case? There has to be more than this. Maybe Mo told Cashman he doesn't want to discuss this yet, and Cashman is offering to take the flak for it? What else could be the reason? I've been ecstatic about his moves this offseason, but this stance just makes me scratch my head.
This isn't coming from Rivera. He said he hopes the Yankees "do the right thing", which is to begin talks on a new contract now. Cashman certainly isn't planning on "moving on", Rivera can pitch here for as long as he wants. This isn't a situation like with Bernie. I don't see the big deal with discussing a contract, but I guess they just want to wait. Or else they have cause for concern with something they've seen from him, medically.
Bernie rejects Spring Training invite. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2760786 Bernie one step closer to making the right decision. Retirement.
If Bernie's expecting a guaranteed contract here, he better think again. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/10/sports/baseball/10yanks.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
