Yes b/c I think he's a God if you recall I said although I didn't think it was his fault I thought it was time for a change after the Det series. Joe isn't responsible fopr his overpaid lineup not coming through in the clutch. I back Joe but at least he has a Championship track record, you defend ARod to the death but he has done NOTHING for us other than cost us playoff series.
This is exactly what I thought of when I heard the news. The roar will be twice as loud as the one he received at the home opener in 2004.
If Joe isn't responsible for these guys not being prepared for a playoff series, yet again, who exactly is? Why do people have such a problem understanding the meaning of the term "manager?"
I told my wife this morning that I was buying home opener tix for 2008 this morning. I was answered with a "Fine, honey, whatever you want" coupled with a sigh. Then I told her it was because it was almost a sure thing that Donnie would be the manager for the first time that day. I was answered with "Really? That place is going to LOUD! We're going!" That's right honey, we're going. :grin:
I love how I defend A-Rod to the death, yet I've said a number of times that I hope the Yankees trade him. But whatever. :rofl:
It's Joe's fault ARod is a choker? Does he get credit for Jeter's great series? We got enough pitching in the series to win, our bats didn't show up AGAIN. It's a bad mix of guys. I do blame Joe for inserting Sheff and Matsui back into the lineup but that alone was not why they lost.
Enough pitching? Ehh, I'd say decent, and that's nice... Wang was good, then Mussina BLEW a 3-1 lead. Johnson was bad, Wright was worse...They didn't do enough to win the series. I do agree that the bats went silent, most notably ARod and Cano, the bats were atrocious. But the pitching was not good.
NO. It is NOT Joe's fault ARod is a choker. I didn't say it was. I never have. HOWEVER, it is Joe's fault what lineup was fielded during the series. Throughout history, in all sports, there are countless stories of managers/coaches who decided to leave the girl that went to the dance with them hanging while they pursued the pretty one. Joe did that this year. Inserting Matsui and Sheffield was the wrong move. Giambi has proven time and again he is a much better hitter when playing first base. Cabrera was an absolute sparkplug for this team all year long, not to mention his defensive ability, which is worlds better than Matsui. Yes, our pitching was more than adequate to get us through the playoffs. However, the mixed up lineup was too different than the one that developed chemistry all year long. I'm not going to argue the point of chemistry yet again. Those who played organized sports in their lifetime know the value. Those that haven't just don't seem to be able to grasp the significance. (I don't know if you have or haven't, I'm just speaking generally.) Joe could easily have had Giambi at first, and Cabrera in left. Giambi probably hits better, and that is a big spark in the lineup, and along with Jeter's performance, generates more runs, throwing off Detroit's pitching, allowing more guys to get the job done. Cabrera probably gets on base more often than Sheff is ever going to, and that results in more baserunners making Detroit's pitching nervous. Insert Matsui as the DH, and he gets hits in the middle of the lineup, generating more nerves. (I would rather have Matsui than Bernie at this point, but at the same time, Bernie's postseason performance is undeniable.) The only way to win baseball games is to get to the opposing pitcher. The lineup we were playing with couldn't do that. Sure, it's 20/20 hindsight, but Joe should know better. If you don't blame Joe for sucking the chemistry out of the lineup at the worst possible time, who do you blame? It's not like he didn't have a week to see that Matsui and Sheff weren't making as big a splash as he'd hoped. As if that all weren't enough, we can talk about motivation. Supposedly, that is Joe's strongest managerial trait. I would argue that in his entire time here, it has been his ONLY managerial trait. It was his job to wake these guys up. Why were there no closed-door meetings during the series? Every time he pulls one of those, the team comes out and responds. What happened here? Did he think this team should just be able to fix itself? Sorry Joe, wrong move. Ever see Pat Riley or Phil Jackson just throw their hands in the air and say, "whatever guys, just do what you're supposed to?" Basically, my question to you then junc, is what exactly is a manager responsible for, if not to field the lineup that wins and motivate guys when they obviously need it? Justify to me how Joe is NOT responsible for this mess. You can't do it by saying that the bats just went cold, because as I have illustrated, that can be directly pointed back at Torre on multiple levels. So sorry. I will continue to blame Joe Torre for this year's collapse for the rest of my life. The only way that changes is if news breaks that either George or Cashman demanded the lineup that we saw, and Joe simply complied. Otherwise, this loss is solely on the shoulders of Torre.
I didn't say the pitching was good, it WAS good enough. Mussina ble a 3-1 lead BUT the bats had Det on the ropes all game and couldn't put them away and RJ wasn't terrible for 6 Innings in game 3. If we could have gotten some hits and given him some runs things could have been different. we lost b/c of the bats just like '03, '04 and '05.
Sweet! Sheff is a hot commodity! I liked him when he was playing well here, but it's time to cut ties. Looks like we actually get something nice for him too. Good work Cashman. Time to guy out Wright. I'd rather blow $4M than $7M. He has been too disappoing. I think we should pick Moose's option. Unless he would be willing to renegotiate. I doubt that though. He had a pretty good year this year, arguably his best in pinstripes. If we can fix up this rotation, he would be a very attractive option as the number 4 or 5.
Ideally I'd like to see the Yankees move Sheffield for a starting pitcher and then try to solve the bullpen through free agency (again.) I just worry about Matsuzaka or Zito in the AL East, especially with their hugely inflated price tags. I think that all we really need is one more good arm in the bullpen to keep Villone/Proctor/Farnsworth's innings down and all 3 could be very effective. Maybe David Riske or Scott Shoeneweis--a big name is not necessary. Just an adequate pitcher.
I heard from someone at work that the deal now is that Sheff is going to Philly for some guy named Floyd I think. I have no idea who that is. From what this guy told me, he's like 26, with a live fastball. Like I said, I have no clue though.
Maybe Gavin Floyd, who's bounced up and down from the bottom of Philadelphia's rotation for the last 2 seasons. I'd certainly hope that Cashman could get more than Gavin Floyd in exchange for Sheffield (though I'm not certain we're talking about the same player here.) If we're trading Sheffield to the Phillies, let's talk Ryan Madson for starters.
Yankees | Suppan interests Steinbrenner Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:56:46 -0800 ESPNews reports the New York Yankees may be interested in talking with free-agent SP Jeff Suppan (Cardinals) once the negotiating period with teams begins.
