Wow... this team is bad all across the board.

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Zach, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. Darnasty

    Darnasty Well-Known Member

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    Mahomes & Watson would’ve both been run out of town by now if they were drafted by the Jets. The NFL thanks the Jets for not drafting them.
     
  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Both would not be doing as well as they have on good teams, with good coaching, but either would've been far better than what we had/have.
     
  3. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    I like the post but, Arizona traded Rosen for a 2 and drafted Murray (21 when the season started). If we're drafting a QB with a top 3 pick Darnold is going to get moved for a draft pick. We don't lose that much other than some cap space.
     
  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well, assuming Darnold could bring at least that much AND, more importantly, there's someone definitely better to draft. The problem with the second part is" do you trust the Jets to know who would be better? I do think Douglas is far better than Macc in this regard, but he's unproven. I still prefer waiting and seeing how Sam turns out with an actual pro OL in front of him. Of course this opinion is subject to change.
     
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  5. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    If you don't trust Douglas it really doesn't matter what we do. This is his call.
     
  6. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The only way we look to move Darnold is if we have a brand new coach come in here that absolutely says F him, he's damaged goods and we have the #1 or 2 pick. Let me to get my guy and start fresh. Similar to what happened with Kingsbury.

    It's a lot easier to do that when you have the first pick and you're guaranteed to get the guy you traded away your former #3 pick for.

    I can't imagine in that scenario that we get much more than the Cardinals got for Rosen. The league will know we're moving him like they did with Rosen, and even though we all want to believe Sam is better, he hasn't proven to be anymore of an asset than Rosen is. He may be looked at as even more damaged goods.
     
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  7. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    Blackledge and Eason was in ref. to your strawman '83 class' reference and your subsequent "big difference between drafting a QB today than in 83" comment underscores the strawman.

    Did everyone here get "caught up in the (Baker) hype?" Others maybe; not here.

    Darnold's age was relevant since it was in answer to your original (since moved) 'Jim Kelly goalpost' that you threw into the mix to begin with.

    "Darnold & Rosen were hyped before they did anything in college." Not speaking for Rosen but the Darnold comment is absurd. Darnold rode the pines and only when USC's starter spit the bit was Darnold installed as the starter - USC under Darnold capped off the season with a 9-game winning streak with an "exhibition game" Rose Bowl win over Penn State, coming back from 14 down.

    .
     
    #107 joe, Nov 6, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  8. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    Well going back to the original title of this post - this team has some talent. The problem is it is either very bad or lacking at four of the most important positions. OL, EDGE, CB, and WR. Once they bring in a line that can protect the QB and open running lanes, players who can catch the ball and score, players who can harass the opposing QB, and players who can guard the opposing WRs , tackle, and create turnovers this will be a good team. It sounds simplistic but true.

    The question is how fast can JD accomplish this? We’re talking an entire OL or at least 4 positions. We’re talking 2 WRs. 2 CBs and at least one EDGE but maybe two if Jenkins isn’t resigned. Realistically this is a two year project IF JD hits on most of his picks.

    JD needs to find at least one starter for each of these positions in FA - doesn’t have to be a #1 type guy - although it would be helpful.
    Then he needs to readdress these same positions in the draft. That’s true double dipping. Not Mac’s version of double dipping which is back to back same position in the 4th and 5th rounds type stuff.

    If he accomplishes this the Jets will take off.
     
  9. HerndonFan

    HerndonFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    Imagine if we took Allen instead of Quinnen this year. Edge wouldn't be a priority. Yeah, what's done is done, but it felt like such an obvious pick at the time.
     
    #109 HerndonFan, Nov 6, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  10. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    If they took Allen - the correct pick- they may not have traded L. Williams so fast ...
     
  11. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how both those teams are outscoring us by wide margins. Cinn by around 25% Tenn nearly doubling out point total.
     
  12. JetsUK

    JetsUK Well-Known Member

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    In part that is due to the fact that Cinnci's pass blocking and Tenn's run blocking are both fairly middle of the pack - so there is something they are doing OK - we are the only team that is really bad in both categories aside from Miami (who are at 28 and 30 - so really bad but still not as bad as the Jets)

    for example, Kansas City is ranked #31 in run blocking but is #8 in pass protection
     
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  13. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Joe you would have to have been asleep not to have heard the comparisons of Darnold, Baker and Rosen to the 83 class which was my reference but it apparently went over your head.. Now if you thought in any way that reference was to Eason and Blackledge and that was my reference you were simply wrong, stupid or being argumentative. You brought up Blackledge and Eason not me. You used the word Straw man not me. The straw man is arguing having a big game in the Rose Bowl and being 22 is proof Darnold isn't going to be a bust. It's not proof it's an argument that has been disproved almost ever year in the NFL as great college QB's have busted in the NFL almost ever year.

    So we are clear. The Rose Bowl post the College playoffs is an exhibition game. You can't mythically win the national championship by pitting two highly ranked teams below the top 4 in the Rose Bowl. The Pac 12 is a good, not a great conference. Sam like McSorley was a terrific college QB. Terrific College QBs bust in larger number in the NFL all the time.

    Darnold and Rosen were hyped as potential great NFL QB's before they ever threw a pass in College as was Sanchez. USC has one of the most storied and is one of the biggest hype machines for their program and players in the country. Sam was not drafted for his great Rose bowl game or 9 wins. He was drafted for his potential as an NFL starting QB. Since he went with a top 3 pick that potential was seen as elite potential.

    The Cardinals dumped Rosen after a year. They drafted a younger QB than Darnold and he is playing miles better than Darnold in year 1 than Darnold played in year 1 or two so far. Douglas didn't draft Darnold Mac drafted him. Douglas has a big decision on his hands going forward. The entire team including Darnold will have to be evaluated because we may well end up with a top 3 pick again and be staring at a QB.

    GM's who consistently have busts drafts with the data they have today get canned. Mac got canned. Mac drafted Darnold. Our new GM has a lot of very big decisions to make this off season and one of them may be a QB that's sitting in front of him when the NY Jets are on the clock.

    FYI Jim Kelly was drafted in the class of 83 and is in the NFL HOF. The 86 team he QB'd after 2 years in the USFL stunk. He did not stink.
     
    #113 Biggs, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  14. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the biggest difference between Darnold and Murray is coaching. It may be that Murray is in fact a better QB, too soon to tell IMO, but Darnold is being done a great disservice playing under the coaches he's had so far on the Jets.
     
  16. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    That's not the big difference. Watch Murray throw the ball. Watch Sam throw the ball. KK has had nothing to do with Murray's athletic talent, accuracy and decision making. He's smarter than Darnold, quicker than Darnold and his throwing motion once he makes a decision to get the ball out is a thing of beauty. He's severely limited by his height. He is fundamentally miles ahead of Sam throwing the ball at a younger age.

    Kingsbury didn't have Murray a year out of college. Kingsbury made it easy for Murray by using the same terminology he had in college with virtually the same plays. He's a good young coach. He lost a couple of games with some really dumb in game decisions. He probably has the Jets at anywhere from zero to 2 wins with this roster, injuries and opponents. There would be a go fund you page to get rid of him.

    It's easy to shortchange Murray and blame all of Sam's problems on coaching because if it really is the coaching there may still be hope. If it was just the coaching why did the GM who traded up to get Rosen dump him for a song to take Murray? He had seen enough.
     
  17. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    Big Blocker, is that you? Where to begin with this swipe-imbued emotional screed...

    Mentioning a Rose Bowl win as an accomplishment was meant as only a part of the kid's makeup and not to serve as a cornerstone in Darnold's "ordination." I could've named a slew of other snippets of his overall body of work, e.g. Darnold's quick-thinking improv jump pass win during the waning moments of a comeback win over Texas. You (and TGG majority) were sold on Rosen. Fine, I wasn't. I saw Darnold as a kid who showed potential in spite of a lousy coaching staff. Darnold had a Neanderthal OC offensive at USC (Tee Martin) who's since been fired and a head coach (Clay Helton) whom everyone at SC wants fired and who's only now seeing the light who is now trying to save his ass by installing Graham Harrell as OC who's an "air raid" disciple of Kingsbury (Kyler Murray) and Mike Leach.

    Btw, USC had Kliff Kingsbury earmarked to replace Martin as OC but KK had to bail in order to interview for the Cards. Further, USC's been somewhat in a state of flux with a new AD (Mike Broh?) still to be named. As for others you (out of left field) felt compelled to include: Deshawn Watson, a great talent who turned around Clemson's offense--and who also was tutored by no less an offensive mind than OC Chad Morris whom Watson will be the first one to credit. Lamar at UL: Bobby Petrino, adulterous dirtbag but an offensive whiz and who's now with a SB-winning coach in John Harbaugh whose OC (Greg Roman) had QB's Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor post their highest QB ratings under his tutelage.

    Elsewhere your post is a pile of circular logic and goal post moving, e.g. the "Jim Kelly did not stink" comment. Seriously? FYI: I knew Kelly was in the '83 class and was simply pointing out that (lousy Gamblers team or not) he got to cut his teeth during a 2-year post-collegiate apprenticeship prior to arriving in the NFL.

    Lastly, your man Rosen looks like he's a washout. To me the bottom line is this: Darnold's still in play even if he is mired in the "capable hands" of yet another garbage coach (feel free to also dismiss that as an "excuse") and I'm not writing him off as (as you've described him) a "goofy kid" with "no brains." adios -->
     
  18. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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  19. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

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    Darnold is a 22 year old kid with one of the worst olines I’ve ever seen trying to block for him....also coming off Mono which doesn’t fully go away for months

    It would be asinine to give him the Rosen treatment...a coach that doesn’t want to build around Darnold won’t be hired here

    Fortify the damn O-line and he’ll be back to dropping dimes
     
  20. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Wait.

    So...

    1. Draft a kid with 1st round pick (High pick at that. And very promising one with heap of potential)
    2. Give him no protection whatsoever
    3. Give him almost no playmaker to help him out

    And now blame the kid for sucking?

    From beheading your own self to sticking your own dick in a light bulb socket, how outrageously stupid do you have to be, to come up with this spectacularly retarded logic? Kudos to you all.

    P.S. Sam was sacked 18 times in 5 games. If you extrapolate that to the half season, that's equivalent to 29 sacks. Only Jameis Winston was sacked more (30), with Dalton clocking at 29. At least they actually have some semblance of protection (1), half functional run game (2) and some consistent threat at WR (3). Sam's QBR is currently at 70. Winston is at 85.2. Dalton is at 79.2. See some trend?

    P.S.2 Last, but not the least, average sack number per game is a very good indicator of how a QB performs, and the first clear break comes at 2 sacks/game. That's about 32 sacks a year. Sam's been taking good 3 sacks a game on average. If you include the number of QB hits that lead to 3 sacks/game, you'd easily see why he's so shell-shocked by the middle of third quarter. At this rate he's easily breaking 40 sack barrier. Give him a few more years of this physical abuse, and you've got David Carr ver 2.0. That's his fault? Right. Absolutely. It is his fault that he was drafted by this sorry franchise to begin with.
     
    #120 Zach, Nov 9, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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