How much is where we differ--you seem to believe that the coach is the main talent evaluator and I believe he maybe has some veto power, but SHOULD NOT and in most cases DOES NOT have the overarching power of the GM in drafting players. Your entire point--if you're the one who originally mentioned "common denominator"--seems to put the lion's share of the failure on Rex Ryan and heep praise on Mangini, when I believe that how much influence either had, the ultimate responsibility and accountability should fall on the GM. He's hired SPECIFICALLY to oversee talent evaluation and acquisition. You seem to think the HC is mostly responsible, which is wrong.
Wrong. I do not think the HC spearheads the picks at all. I think it's 100% a group effort and can't be pinned on one guy. However, the GM will rightfully be the first guy to take the fall for a poor draft just like the HC will rightfully take the fall for wins and losses. What I'd like to know is how does Terry Bradway still have a fucking job.
Well, then we agree mostly. Although I think the actual selection process is mostly the scouting department, which is overseen by the GM during the season. yeah, the HC should have input, but someone keeps elevating the Mangenius' talent acquisition acumen and calling Rex Ryan the "common denominator" for poor drafts. When, in reality, as you astutely mentioned, it's fucking Terry Bradway who is the actual "common denominator". He's been in charge of scouting, either as GM or as scouting director for the time period in question. And my opinion is that a complete house cleaning--GM, HC and Scouting Director--is needed for this team, regardless of how long or short Idzik has been around. His offseason performance was abysmal, from FA to the draft.
Whiffing on 1 out of 5 first round picks is actually pretty good compared to NFL success rates. So not sure what your point is. As far as the GMs, you seem to be stuck in 2 extremes, either the GM does everything, or the GM does nothing. The reality is in between. GMs do scout players, but so do coaches. Still, it is the coach and his staff who have more intimate experience with players, since they work with them all the time, and they are the ones who know their schemes exactly, so their opinion counts for a lot. The HC is not doing any coaching for several months before the NFL draft, so they have plenty of time to participate.
I'm not sure it is pretty good compared to NFL success rates for the top ten picks. But, if it is, so what? Mangini was only around for TWO drafts, no? And he whiffed on one of them, with the SIXTH overall pick. But you're right, it's really beside the point, which most of your arguments seem to be: debunk one myth and you switch to another. Debunk that myth and you're back to the first already debunked myth. And I'm not stuck on any extremes. I'm stuck on reality: who is responsible and who should be held accountable. And I've pretty much explained how I believe most successful franchises run the draft: the GM oversees the scouting department during the season, the scouting department helps the GM and HC compile a team's draft board. The GM makes the selection with input. How that translates into the HC being the leader of a draft and getting the lion's share of credit for good drafting, as you've claimed when discussing draft successes for Mangini, has not been adequately explained, beyond your having a bro-mance for Mangini and a disdain for Rex Ryan.
The success rate isn't as sure as I made it seem: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-22/nfl-draft-2012-first-round-disappointments "While the sample sizes aren't huge for interior offensive linemen, those who have been good enough to warrant selection in the first round over the last 10 years have generally not disappointed." So, an easier position to draft, somewhat diminishing the "wow he's a great talent evaluator" argument. And then there's "The sixth pick in the draft has been snake-bitten, with only two players who have been to a Pro Bowl and zero multiple-Pro Bowl players" So, I've actually helped your argument. You're welcome. And...Merry Christmas!!
did you miss the casserly quote where he said that being outside the organization it's hard to say who's responsible for the final say? it's almost like you're purposely ignoring that.
did you miss the casserly quote where he said that being outside the organization it's hard to say who's responsible for the final say? it's almost like you're purposely ignoring that.
did you miss the casserly quote where he said that being outside the organization it's hard to say who's responsible for the final say? it's almost like you're purposely ignoring that.
did you miss the casserly quote where he said that being outside the organization it's hard to say who's responsible for the final say? it's almost like you're purposely ignoring that.
Not sure if anyone mentioned... Just to ply devil's advocate, hiring a consultant can mean anything or mean nothing. That's what you do to have someone to point a finger to in the face of public pressure to justify your decision. So while it's possible Woody is looking to replace FO. It's also possible he just needs someone to "justify" NOT replacing the FO. Just saying...
why are you constantly repeating that, but only for my posts? I get it, it's hard to say who is responsible with any certainty EITHER WAY. It's almost like you're purposely being a fucktard, repeating it time and time again when it's already been said time and time again before you started repeating it over and over.
The point is this, I want to speak directly to Woody Johnson, and I know he has read my posts in the past. I dont know whether he still reads my posts, but I know he read one of them in the past for sure, because he actually did a response to it by doing a song in a club somewhere.
Woody is probably hiring a consultant to placate the fans. Wasn't Idzig suppose to be hired to clear salary space? Rebuilds take a few years last time I checked. I am not advocating for keeping Idzig by the way. Additionally, weren't there other GM's who passed on the opportunity to be the GM of the Jets? Can everyone who has posted recently give their new HC and GM choices? Please do not count Harbaugh because this is the last place that he would go. Merry Christmas also.
Also, quality free agents prefer to go to a contending team so options were pretty limited on that front.
Mangini was around for 3 drafts, not 2. 2 out of the 3 were pretty good, one was kinda crappy, but still netted a good player. Rex was around for 4 with Tannenbaum, 2 of them were absolute shit, 1 was kinda crappy, and one was decent. Pretty big difference. Again, you are the only one talking about the HC being the leader of the draft. Everyone else is telling you that HC just has a lot of input into it, they are not the leader. But if you have several partners in a firm, and it has a certain level of success, and the one partner (Mangini) leaves, and is replaced with another (Rex), everybody else being the same, and the firm starts doing much more poorly, what logical conclusion does this lead to? Heh, Merry Christmas! And yeah, lots of early picks go bad, there are no guarantees, doesnt look good for Clowney right now for example, and he was pretty close to a generational player.
Unless there is flagrant stupidity in running the organization to me this is not the way to go. It undermines the GM. If you feel this way you fire him and then hire the consultants. This team was 8-8 last year and no one said a word. Now all of the vultures are out looking for blood. PS I think there are intelligent answers to support all of the decisions under Idzik. Including drafting Geno, not signing an elite CB (they did bid on at least two guys-those 2 guys didn't want to play here) and not spending the $20 mil. To me the team played under their talent level. And needs a big change as far as the coaching staff. Most notably at HC and OC.
