I really don't see the gross incompetency. If you have a plan and you were hired for it and your first year the team was 8-8 why fire a guy after one bad season. I think because of the press who influenced fans. It was venomous. When he didn't spend money he was accused of being cheap. If the guy did something like sign Harvin he was accused of only doing it to save his ass. He was accused by them of trying to sabotage Rex. And intentionally trying to lose games to get him fired. Tanny signed Mark, Tone etc. to bad contracts. Even with the Harvin trade there was no guaranteed money on it so nothing to lose.
You said Idzik had better football credentials than Tannenbaum. What do you mean by that exactly? I took it to mean you thought he was more qualified to be a GM at the time he was hired by Woody than when Tannenbaum was promoted from within. If it wasn't for Woody's stupidity, you could not have found another NFL franchise on planet Earth that would have given Idzik the reins to be their GM. Regardless of what you or I think of Tannenbaum, the guy has since been hired to essentially be the de facto GM of the Dolphins. So there was at least one other team that thought highly enough of him to bring him on board to direct their front office, after he was fired by the Jets. Idzik will never sniff another GM job for as long as he lives.
I doubt he will ever be a GM not due to incompetency but his inability to work with the press and of course that infamous presser. That to me was the only legit reason to fire him. Unlike Tanny he is an ex-college player, he has bloodlines in coaching, had some coaching and personnel experience. He wasn't just a cap guy with Arizona, Tampa Bay and the Seahawks. Tanny had no football background. He never played the game and wasn't a talent evaluator. As we all know Idzik wasn't the Jets top choice. But other candidates didn't want the job because of Woody's caveats: keeping Rex, (probably) getting rid of Revis, etc. Idzik is yesterday's newspaper and probably not worth defending. I just think it was stupid and minor league to fire him after the press and fan uproar which was idiotic.
there is a lot wrong with this post. I'll address Tannenbaum. Tannenbaum was in player personnel in Cleveland under Belichick and in N.O. prior to coming here as Parcells' Cap guy but also worked in player personnel here as well. So if you are going to say Idzik wasn't just a cap guy with Arizona, TB and SEA, you have to say the same about Tannenbaum. So they were at the very least even in those regards, football background wise. Unless you really want to make the argument that Idzik's 1 year as a WRs coach at Div 3 Buffalo and 2 years as a glorified towel boy "graduate assistant" at Duke really gives him the edge over Tannenbaum's experience with 2 of the best player evaluators in history. ----plus I would think their resume's at the top guy would speak for themselves as to who was the better evaluator of football players. that should be obvious at this point
I'll stand corrected on Tanny but I really don't believe he ever had much to do with personnel. It might be on his resume but I think probably he was mostly on the business and cap end. I'm not a Tanny hater and think he did some good things here. Things didn't work out for him either like cutting Chad and going with Favre (a move most of us loved but which didn't work out when Chad out played him in 2008). Look, if you want to shoot down Idzik and say he was an incompetent boob and did a horrible job with the Jets that's your (and 70% of this board's) opinion. I disagree and think he was setting up a good long term plan to rebuild the franchise. I can see if no immediate results the same fan base clamoring for Woody to fire Mac in a few years if things go south.
There's nothing in Idzik's personality or track record with the Jets that would suggest that he would have done the same thing or have been as aggressive as Mac. Oh, I'm sure that he would have tried to some extent, but the minute a player or agent asked for more money than Idzik thought he was worth, he would have clammed up and backed off. He would have had to have kept Harvin to get anywhere close to the amount of money that he needed to spend. He probably would have signed a plethora of cheap FAs, and may have grossly overpaid a FA or two to try to spend the required amount. NOTHING in Idzik's handling of FA suggested that he even remotely could be as successful as Mac. NOTHING.
You were wrong about Tanny vs Idzik's credentials, and you're wrong about Idzik. Your statement that "Things didn't work out for Tanny here" like it wasn't his fault and things beyond his control undermined him is absurd and shows how clueless you are. Tanny was directly responsible for his own demise with his being too impetuous, too aggressive in the draft giving away a plethora of draft picks, cutting team leaders and disrupting the chemistry, and not keeping Rex under control. Idzik was unsuccessful for the opposite reason. He was too cautious, too slow, too methodical. He vocalized the proper plan of building through the draft, but then seemingly screwed the pooch during the draft. He knew enough to know that the team should be build primarily through the draft, but then didn't know how to execute that plan. He didn't know enough about personnel to know that his scouting dept. was bad and that most of his assessments of players weren't good, either. He isn't a leader. He is a follower. The Jets could have given him 100 years to build a winner and imo he never would have been able to do it. Some of us are obviously better judges of talent and leadership than others. It took many Jets fans several years to realize that Herm was a bad HC. I could see it within the first game or two of his rookie season. The same thing with Rex and Tanny. I could see their flaws very early and know the game well enough that I could see that they were not going to succeed because of the way they went about their jobs. Other Jets fans thought they were great for years, and some still do!
Mac hasn't been successful yet. He made one big signing for Qb money: Revis. IMO Idzik wasn't allowed to negotiate with Revis last year because of Woody. That's an issue for debate but it's based on what I read over a couple of seasons. And Woody's comments at his presser. The rest of Mac's signings have been ordinary for lower tier players except for Cro (who I think was overpaid). Almost all of these moves have been close to what Idzik did last season: signing a Seattle OL, a backup Qb with experience, a FA Wr with talent, backup players on the D (like Babin, etc). And re-signing Jets role players from the previous season. As for the Harris re-signing Idzik laid the framework for that deal. Harris's agent after he was fired said that Idzik had been in constant contact with him during and after the season ended. If you don't like Idzik that's ok with me. btw last time we talked and we disagreed you said you were going to block me out. I wasn't exactly broken heartted about that. But if you want a civil dialogue even though I think you're usually wrong ok with me.
Next year I expect more of a hype in the media between the Bills and Patriots. I hope the Jets take care of business and are not brash about their victories ala Rex era.
You're right about one thing imo, Mac hasn't been successful yet. That said, he has certainly given every indication that he will be. I think you are grossly underestimating the work he did in FA. Do you for one minute think that Idzik would have traded for Marshall? I don't. If what we have all read in the media is true, then Idzik probably wouldn't have even tried to re-sign Revis, and I doubt he would have been able to even if he did. I wasn't in favor of re-signing Revis, but I have to admit that he makes the Jets a LOT better on defense and will go a long way towards making Bowles' D successful. I think adding Cro was a great move for several reasons. One, Cro can still play as evidenced by his play under Bowles last season. Two, Cro knows Bowles' system. Three, Revis and Cro have played together before and had chemistry. That can't be underestimated. Four, look at the great deal he signed Cro to. Only one guaranteed year. Five, Cro really wanted to be here. I think signing him will help pave the way for future successes in FA. Other players will see how much Cro wanted to be here, will see the success that the Jets have under Bowles and Mac (I truly believe they will), and will then want to come here. He also signed Skrine is who is a CB on the rise. He's light years better than Wilson, and will add a touch of ballhawk to the Jets secondary. He can also play outside if need be. He added a flexible player in Gilchrist, who can play CB in a pinch or either FS or SS. He totally changed the Jets' secondary from one of the worst in the NFL to potentially one of the best. That's nothing at which to sneeze. He was very aggressive in going after both Franklin and Iupati, even offering to overpay each of them, until he was told that they wanted to stay on the west coast. He at least made a significant effort to fix the problem at OG by aggressively pursuing Franklin and Iupati and then by signing Carpenter and Brewer. He traded for the best available FA QB who has had his greatest success under Gailey. I'm not sure that Idzik would have made this move, either. As far as my view of Idzik, you have to understand that I NEVER wanted him in the first place. I had never even heard of him before. I thought Woody had totally screwed up by mandating that the new GM had to retain Rex, and it cost the team several GM prospects that I really liked and wanted one of them to be the new GM. In spite of that, I wanted to like Idzik. I rooted for him to succeed, but nothing about him inspired any confidence or trust in me. I truly didn't think he had the right kind of personality to be an effective, successful GM. I still think that way. I'm not saying that he's a bad man, that he had no football background or pedigree, or anything like that. I think that he probably would have been a good behind the scenes FO man in some administrative capacity. I worked a lot in administration for big companies in NYC for 16 years. I saw and worked for Idzik's type many, many times during that time period. Those types are too conservative, not creative, can't think outside the box, and don't have the personalities to handle the media, wooing FAs or being THE leader of an organization. They have their place and can be beneficial if balanced and supervised by a leader who sees the big picture and who is more outgoing, or more of a people person. Where those administrative types were THE leaders, it was a disaster and it never worked for long. I was only going to block you out because of your tone. I don't like putting people on ignore. We have had other civil discussions, so I changed my mind and decided to give it a second chance.
I think Mac signed too many Dbs and overpaid for Cro but I'm ok with all of that. As for Idzik not making the Marshall trade who knows but he proved he could make good trades in his two years as GM. And excusing Mac for not being able to sign Iupati: almost no one gave Idzik a pass for not signing Vontae Davis and DRC. Davis was the best CB available last year as proven by his 2014 season. And the Jets thought they had him signed until he re-upted with his team, the Colts after they counter offered the Jets at the last minute. He also was in the running to get DRC and was accused of low balling him by people who had no idea about the negotiations between him and the player. They just believed negative stories by Mehta and Cimini. The fact is DRC preferred the Giants. One reason was his relationship with his mentor with the Cardinals, Antoine Rolle. As it turned out he was often injured in 2014 something I'm sure Idzik haters would have blamed on him like they did everything else. He did sign Patterson who was a decent CB but again it didn't work out. Now Idzik signed Vick which to me was a good signing. With the approval of the OC who knew Mike Vick. It didn't work out. And now this year Mac signed Fitz with the approval of the OC who also knew the player well. If it doesn't work out is that Mac's fault. I'm just tired of Idzik being blamed for everything and Rex for nothing. Neither guy did a good job and we were 4-12. Rex had six seasons and Idzik only two. And btw if Geno turns it around what do Idzik haters say then. You can add Milliner etc to that list of drafted players who are presently developing and you can't really grade out yet. But they say the drafts were a disaster (when they in reality weren't). As for the blocking if I was obnoxious it was unintended. And it was probably a two way street. Be glad to talk football with you anytime. Even if we disagree.
Earlier in FA, I was leaning towards agreeing with you about Mac signing too many DBs, but have backed off that thinking and am waiting to see how things work out. I thought Rex obsessed too much over the CB position and I sure didn't want another HC that did the same thing. That said I like Bowles and think he was a good choice, although I think I would have preferred Quinn or a couple of collegiate HCs of whom I think highly. I didn't kill Idzik for not signing Davis or DRC. In fact, I defended him for not overpaying. I trusted him to have made enough moves to address the CB position. I also didn't blame him for the injuries or for Patterson going nuts. There's no way he could have forseen all that to happen. There was another one or two quality veteran CBs who were second tier FAs who Idzik could have signed. One played for the Ravens, but I don't remember his name now. A poster pointed that guy out and he was right. That CB had a very good year with his new team. I never wanted Mike Vick, both because of his character and because of his play. I just never thought he was that good. I was surprised when he wasn't prepared to play last year, not just once but twice. If you've read any of my posts at all, you know that I don't just blame Idzik. I blame Rex for a LOT of things. LOL Idzik never should have been forced to keep Rex, but last year, I think he was given the opportunity to make a change and decided to stick with Rex. That was one of the deciding things that turned me against Idzik, that and his failure to make any changes in the scouting and personnel depts. I didn't blame Idzik for taking Geno, either. I thought Geno was a good pick at the time, and still think he has some potential, though a lot less than I thought at the time. I didn't want another CB taken high, but could understand why Idzik took Milliner and didn't hate the pick. I thought Geno would go in the 1st round, and wanted him, but also liked Jarvis Jenkins and Barkevious Mingo. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. I love a good discussion as long as it's civil and intelligent and/or rational. Peace. Cheers.
The question is did Idzik really want to fire Rex or give him a chance based on his previous success. We don't know that just assume Rex was forced on him. He didn't fire Bradway or most of the front office. It could have been part of the agreement when he was hired or maybe he just wanted to give them a chance and work with them. We know one thing based on info during the hiring process for GM: that Woody told all candidates they had to keep Rex. And possible get rid of Revis. These items were leaked so not 100% sure of their authenticity. I do believe Idzik made a good trade on Revis and got back better than satisfactory compensation. I also think that Woody meddled with Mac and basically pushed him to sign Revis (whereas the exact opposite for Idzik). Revis got a good deal above market value. But it was worth it. We need this guy because he's great. About Geno: Idzik was accused by fans and some of the media for making Rex play Geno because he was "his pick." But over a period of time there were other stories that said it was Rex's decision esp benching Geno and later reinserting him when Vick played poorly. We saw Idzik not only cut players he had selected but we saw Rex bench guys like Milliner and Pryor who didn't play well. So to me it seems like there was no interference on the field by Idzik. He was GM so I'm sure he talked to Rex about on the field decisions like all GMs do. But if starting Geno was a big nistake you can't just blame Idzik for it.
We're in total agreement that Idzik didn't force Rex to start Geno and/or didn't tell him whom to play. I also agree that Idzik got back good compensation for Revis. I think it is entirely likely that Woody meddled with Mac and pushed him to sign Revis, although understanding the type of D that Bowles plays, that idea could have come entirely from Bowles. In terms of Idzik and Rex, I think it is totally true that Idzik was forced to keep Rex the first year. The second year, I don't. Even if he was forced to keep Rex the second year, he didn't have to be so effusive in his praise of Rex. He could have said nothing or been less effusive. Now maybe he was just trying to keep from adding to the media circus. I do think that possible seeing his personality. Idzik was more qualified for the job than Tanny imo. I still think his personality and methodical approach would have been his eventual undoing, but he might have had more success and looked better if he hadn't been forced to retain Rex as a condition of his hiring. I thought at the time, however, that the Jets' new GM needed to be someone with an extensive personnel background and that was his strength, NOT cap management or administration.
I don't see how Idzik was more qualified than Tannenbaum. Unless you want to base it on the fact he came from an organization that was on the cusp of winning a Super Bowl. If that is the logic, it seems threadbare. I guess we'll never know what went down behind closed doors, but I think it was Idzik's call to put Sanchez in the game where he got hurt. You could tell Rex was covering for his boss in the post-game. After the game Sancho went off on Idzik for basically sabotaging him. Why would he do that if it was purely Rex's decision?
He played college ball at Dartmouth. Come on. Is there any proof that he even saw the field? Look he doesn't need to be smooth with the press. Prior to that midseason press conference, I don't remember Idzik and the press as this major issue as you seem to remember it. He sabotaged his HC by refusing to sign any corners when he knew his HC's scheme demanded them. The team ridiculously wound up with Dmitri Patterson, who they blew $ 3M guaranteed on. In the greatest WR draft in the last 20 years, he produced Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans, and Quincy Enunwa. All the media did was point out the obvious by bashing him for own handiwork.
Knowledge of cap management is a plus. And so is being a fiscal conservative. When Woody hired Mangini he was trying to duplicate The Patriot Way. With Idzik the Seahawks. Which was exactly what Idzik was trying to do. Mostly through the draft. Seattle got lucky when they drafted Russell Wilson a guy Terry Bradway begged Tanny to draft. And we got stuck with Geno. What a difference. I think Idzik like Seattle who initially struggled under Schneider needed more time. But it's true Idzik's personality partially did him in esp with the press. He was unable to work in a big market like New York. They ate him alive and some of it was his own fault because he wouldn't play ball with them. They also loved Rex.
Exactly,... i wont say Idzik was a good GM, but he really wasn't given the chance to prove if he was a good one or not. If you have a guy with a 3 year plan and judge him 2 years into it of course it isnt going to look very good. Had idzik been given 3 years maybe he proves to be a bad GM, but it looks alot better after he spends the 50M in cap room and the #6 pick he had created. I'm glad idzik si gone because i really question his talent evaluation. but it is really either ignorant or biased to say that you can really judge him on his body of work when he wasnt allowed to carry out his plan. pclfan said it well, its not like we fired him for horrific moves, signing bad over the hill players, etc... we fired him because he hadnt made any moves yet and because of the media backlash. I posted earlier woody johnsons quote indicating he is fine with the rebuild. he totally flip flopped, as he has more then once. he is all about the back page
