Wide Receiver Situation

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by york61, Apr 2, 2022.

  1. york61

    york61 Active Member

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    I don't like to take a CB that high for the simple reason that he can only dominate one player where and edge rusher can dominate and change the dynamic of a game. Great edge rushers can cover up for a middling secondary. Now if hSauce fell to the teens which he won't that would be a different story.
     
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  2. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    I value really good players. To me Burks is a really good player. He has the ability to beat you more than one way. Against the best competition. He dominated NFL corners already. That to me is huge. He was a 4 star recruit out of high school too so he’s been balling out for a while now. He’s just a complete football player with great hands, speed and size. We would be unfortunate to not get him on our squad.
     
  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I'm not a gambling man. Besides, I don't want the Jets to draft an OL before 10. I want them to take either an Edge or WR at #4, and the other position at #10. I don't want an OL in the 1st, and I don't want a CB at all.
     
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  4. mattyd99

    mattyd99 Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone else seeing Mike Evans in Drake London? Evans looked slow and blocky to me at first yet was still beating CB's. As he got older his routes got better and he got faster.

    Not saying London is on Evans' level, but his style is similar and could take the same trajectory, using his body and size to get catches as the routes get better and he gets faster.
     
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  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    He's taller than Burks not bigger. You keep ignoring the conference that Burks played in vs the one London played in. The PAC 12 sucks compared to the SEC. It's not even close.

    It makes total sense. Burks can body the DBs and use the speed that you don't think he has to get his body between the defender and the ball. London's supposed better agility won't do him any good. He'll still be covered and probably try to take on a LB and wind up on IR in his first game.
     
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  6. GreenGreek

    GreenGreek Well-Known Member

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    Just playing devil's advocate, but a CB that can take out a high end WR solo then affords the ability to do other schematic things like more blitzing, stacking the box or doubling other passing options.
     
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  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    The #1 priority for the Jets is developing Zach Wilson. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS in relation to that. The top 6-7 WRs will be gone by the 2nd round, so if you waited until the 2nd round, you likely wouldn't get a WR worth a damn or who would be able to help his rookie season. When you have glaring holes you address them, you don't strengthen already your deepest and strongest position. That's what Mac did over and over, continuing to draft DTs instead of OL or playmakers, and I'm certain you'd love for the Jets to continue to do. JD is not Mac, thank God. In our D, our CBs can be quite sufficient. The best CBs in the NFL can only keep their man covered for 3-4 seconds. Saleh wants a very strong DL. He is willing to go with zone-type CBs. Whereas he said he'd like to have a CB who can shut down a WR in man play, he believes you stop a WR with the pass rush, and I think he is correct in that. We can upgrade our CBs next year if Hall, Reed and Echols don't get the job done on the outside this season. The Jets like Hall, Echols and Dunn on the outside and MC II and Guidry in the slot/nickel. That sounds pretty deep to me.

    We haven't drafted an elite Edge prospect since Abraham was traded (Gholston doesn't count). I don't give a darn how good you or others think Gardner is, he can go ply his trade elsewhere as far as I'm concerned. JD may take Gardner because he thinks he's elite, and he may not think any of the Edges that will be available at #4 are elite. If that is the case, I will root for Gardner, and hope that we are able to get at least a good Edge prospect at #35 (either Arnold Ebiketie or Boye Mafe), but I hope that doesn't happen.
     
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  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    That's they myth of the shutdown CB. The problem is that there have only been 1 or 2 over the last 10-20 years. Even then, they aren't effective if there's no pass rush. The opposing team can send out 2-3 other WRs and one of them will be open. Even if Gardner is an elusive shutdown CB, if we don't have a better pass rush or if Zach doesn't develop because he winds up having to throw to UPS delivery men again this season, it won't matter, because we won't be winning squat. With all things being equal, CB is a position that should have to wait until next season. All things may not be equal, however. Neither Hutch nor KT may be there at #4 and maybe JD doesn't think Jermaine Johnson is elite. He may think he can get Ebiketie or Mafe at #35. I hope he doesn't do that, however. When one has the glaring needs we have, that has to take priority over value or BPA. Jermaine Johnson may not be as elite an Edge prospect as Gardner is an elite CB prospect, but pairing Johnson with Lawson could be plenty good enough to give us a dynamic pass rush, and that's what is most important.
     
  9. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    He has the same speed and less size than the guy you're saying is going to be awful. He also produced a lot less as a receiver.

    I just don't understand how London could produce so much while allegedly being so bad. You don't average 11 catches per game with an awful QB unless you're doing a lot of things right. You guys are acting like the PAC-12 is full of high school DB's.

    So Burks can body DBs but London can't at 6'4 220? Come on. London is way bigger than the average DB. That's a lot more significant than him being 5 lbs lighter than Burks.

    I'm not ignoring the conference at all. I'm just saying the difference between the SEC and PAC-12 doesn't fully explain why London produced WAY more than Burks last season. He was on pace to double Burks' number of catches and gain 150% as many yards.

    PAC-12 defenses are worse but not THAT much worse.
     
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  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Guy, I have zero interest in continuing to discuss this with you. You're not gonna change your mind, and I'm not going to change mine. You see what you see, and I see what I see. In my mind, there's no comparison between the two. You think the PAC 12 isn't far behind the SEC and I think that is hilarious. I think the PAC 12 sucks in comparison to the SEC. The ACC is a better football conference now and the Big Ten (or whatever it's called now) is still better. You ignore the difference in the girth and strength between Burks and London, and the difference in style of play, so nothing productive is going to come from this. Let. it. go.
     
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  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    NC, I am not arguing that the PAC-12 doesn't have worse defenses than the SEC, it does.

    But again, London was on pace to DOUBLE Burks' number of catches and gain 150% as many yards as Burks. PAC-12 defenses aren't THAT much worse than SEC ones.

    They're both Power 5 conferences. SEC teams have a 58% winning percentage all-time vs. PAC-12 teams. They win slightly more than they lose. You're acting like the PAC-12 is high school level.
     
  12. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Burks YAC is significantly higher than London’s so I’m curious to know what numbers you’re referencing. I don’t want either one of them b4 15, I’m just asking.

    If either one of them lived up to their full potential, they would be be great Jets. They’re different players and would be used differently.

    If Austin thinks one will be a rockstar and contribute this year, I see JD using some of the picks he budgeted for Hill to go get a WR.

    Perfect Scenario:
    Hutch-Gardner-Austin’s favorite WR
    Close 2nd
    Gardner-JJ-Austin’s favorite WR
     
  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Apples and oranges. USC passed the ball a lot more than Arkansas did. Burks ran the ball a fair number of times, they had a pretty good RB and the QB ran the ball more than a little. So trying to compare London's numbers vs Burks is silly and impossible to rationally do in any fair way.

    An all-time winning percentage is irrelevant. If you don't know that, you should. For a long time, the PAC conference was the best and USC was the king of football. All the SEC had was Alabama and Tennessee a little and UGA a little. Then Florida got good for a minute. Then Auburn for a season or two. The only thing that's important is how the two conferences stack up over the last 2-3 seasons, and its' no contest. It's not even close. London was USC's main weapon in a conference with no great teams or great defenses. Burks was Arkansas' main weapon, and he was dominant against Alabama. If he hadn't been coming off an injury and had been 100%, he might have dominated against UGA as well. Burks doesn't seek out contact, he uses his stiff arm and speed to get away from defenders. Yes, I said speed. If you watched games of Burks at all, you routinely saw him outrunning defenders who had the angle on him. One doens't do that if he doesn't have speed, and don't try to tell me that all the LBs and DBs in the SEC are slow. London knows he isn't going to outrun anyone so he tries to be physical. All that's going to get him is a trip to the IR in the NFL.

    One other thing...London's YAC is NOT higher than Burks. Go look it up.
     
  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You're correct that Burks' YAC is higher than London.

    Who in the heck is "Austin" you are referencing and why should the Jets care what he thinks?
     
  15. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Source on the bold? I remember reading the opposite, I could be wrong. Now that I'm trying to find where I read it I can't find anything. I do know for sure though that London led all WR's in missed tackles forced.

    The bold is a good point I hadn't considered. I would say though that London was essentially USC's entire offense and still no one could stop him which has to mean something.

    Do you have the YAC numbers? I can't find them now that I'm looking.
     
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  16. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Answer to both questions:
    He’s the WR coach
     
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  17. Bills Over Jets

    Bills Over Jets Well-Known Member

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    That's insane to think if you dont draft a WR in the first round that you wont get one worth a damn. In just the last few years...Cooper Kupp, Tee Higgins, Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Chris Godwin, Dionte Johnson, Michael Pittman, Chase Claypool, Gabriel Davis, Darnell Mooney, Hunter Renfroe, Cortland Sutton, Christian Kirk, Michael Gallup. In fact, most would argue its stupid to draft a receiver in the 1st round like it is a RB because there's so many of them now.

    I agree the Jets should be drafting an edge rusher. I've criticized your Gm's for years for not doing that. After Hutchinson, there are plenty of good rushers who are basically on the same level and one can be had at 10. There is no one like Gardner, IMO. So, the smart thing to do would be to grab Garnder at 4 (if he's even there) and get a edge rusher at 10.
     
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  18. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    PFF. If you think about it, it makes sense. A lot of London’s catches are jump balls so those bring down the average YAC per reception.

    https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2022

    5.2 for London
    9.3 for Burks
    8.0 Watson
    9.3 Williams <3
     
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  19. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link.

    Stumbled across this while I was looking for the YAC numbers which I think everyone will find interesting too:

    https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/03/30/ny-jets-draft-ranking-the-top-wr-prospects-in-5-key-stats/
     
  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Every draft is different. One can't make a blanket statement that applies to every draft. Look at 2020. So far the only really good WR who was taken in the 2nd round is Chase Claypool, and the Steelers aren't all that happy with him. There's evidently some kind of attitude issue there.Gabriel Davis was taken later and he developed, but none of the rest did. Pittman was taken before the Jets pick in that draft, or I think the Jets would have taken him. Evidently, JD didn't think that highly of Claypool.

    Yes there are some pretty good WR prospects who could be taken in the 2nd or 3rd round (Doubs and Robinson are the only two that I can think of at the moment who will definitely be available, but Watson and/or PIckens might be available), but neither Doubs nor Robinson may be what the Jets are looking for at WR. All WRs aren't equal. They have different traits and strengths. Even if Watson and/or Pickens make it to the 2nd round, both Jacksonville and Detroit pick ahead of the Jets and could take both or the one the Jets want. Due to Pickens ACL injury, they may be hesitant to take him. It's not as simplistic as you try to make it.
     

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