Sacks don't tell the whole story. How many passes defended did he have? How many times did he blow coverage? Go back and watch the tapes
Vilma is undeniably a very very good player. I just feel as though he is too young and inexperienced to be labeled our best defensive player. He is definitely up there though. Abraham, on the other hand, is entering his prime and is considered an elite pass rusher in the NFL. In terms of age, talent, and game changing ability, I would rank him as our best defensive player.
Well, your wrong so I guess my battle with you is that your wrong. We were #1 in rushing and #14 on defense. So your saying defense got us to the Championship game? We had a +2 on giveaway/takeaway and opponents averaged 105 yards rushing and 225 yards passing a game. No, our offense got us to the playoffs. The defense just didn't give up the big plays at the end of the game to let other teams compete like they did last season. And Randel El is a joke to compare to Vick. No slam on Antwaan, but Vick would run circles around him. If Favre retires no QB in the league will have the armstrength of Vick. Mike just needs to settle down and make his throws and stop thinking run first.
Seattle may not be in the running so much any more. They're signing a LB, Julian Peterson for a pretty huge contract ($55 Mil/7 years). Looks like someone's FO is making some progress while this stalemate is going on! http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2377300
I guess I can see that. Vilma will be a beast in the NFL. I hope your 3-4 suits him like the 4-3 did. The guy has WR speed and can cover TEs in the open as well as blitz the run like a Pro Bowler. I just always felt that he is one of the best LBs in the NFL. Not so sure Abraham is quite up there with Rice, Peppers and others. Would be nice to have a DE similar to those two in our division though.
my point exactly...i just said vick cant throw, he can only run....my point was to show that a receiver can throw better then vick...which isnt too far off of base...and to say your D didnt help you is very inaccurate...Vick threw for 14td's ( piss poor) and 12 ints in 2004....IMO that sucks...in everyone elses opinion too most likely...so he can run....maybe he should be a running back...im done with this convo because it is getting way off topic...my point was mainly that sacking Vick is not an accomplishment being sacked 46 times in 04 was pretty damn high...maybe if he had a clue how to read a defense and get rid of the ball
He was a rookie. I'll tell you what. YOU go back and watch the tapes and then you can report back to all of us instead of speaking in generalities.
It's a good thing we are a run oriented team isn't it? :grin: You're right though, way off topic. But watching 16 regular season games a year plus whatever playoff games we play makes me a bit more knowledgeable on our strengths. Passing isn't one of them but we are a ground and pound team. Don't underestimate Warrick Dunn. I liken him to Curtis Martin on stand up person and a player that produces. Vick is the focus but he isn't the only reason our offense puts up points.
guyonthecouch, I really think you are stretching here today. Nice job Edbo though. Now that's a guy that understands the business of football. You want us to hand you one of our best players, for a second round draft pick? Come on. Tell you what, we will trade you Abe, and our second round pick, for Vick, and your second pick. Fair enough? (BTW: I can't stand Vick, no offense, but he's a RB, not a QB.) Abe was franchised for a reason. Not because the Jets just felt like using the tag on someone, but because he is that valuable. That is the REASON for the tag. As far as it pissing him off, show me one guy that says he is happy to be tagged, and I'll show you a punter. There is so much you have tried to use in your defense so far, and I can't even remember most of it. The one thing I do remember though, I will respond to. You are talking about your GM as being a potential replacement for Tags as Commish? You know who else is being seriously considered for the post? Former President William "Bill" Clinton, and Current Secretary of State Condolezza Rice. :rofl: I'm sorry, but you brought it up more than once, so I had to let you have it on that one. I would seriously reconsider using it again. :shit:
well stat boy, I'm willing to bet he had as many passes defended as a DE in the 4-3 as he did as a LB the 3-4.... I don't have time.. so go look it up and get back to me thanks sugar :grin:
fftopic: It's hard to read a defense when the OL 'sic's the opposing defense on you! Back on track here. I believe a deal will be worked out with the Falcons and Jets on the JAbe situation. Why do I believe this now? Because Arthur Blank, the Falcons' owner has told his FO to "Work it out" and "make sure all three parties are happy". A.B.'s a class dude and he was impressed meeting JAbe last week. Blank's a very classy owner and he personally meets every Falcons player. I have yet to hear about any player that did not like him. One thing that JAbe will have to expect about becoming a Falcon and that is giving a little back to the community. Our present organization has changed drastically since the Rankin Smith era. I certainly hope that the Jets new organization will follow this example. This could be a big key to success.
Hey..I looked up my facts and supported them with specific data. You gave specious generalities and try to pass them off as facts. It may be ok in your world to try and get by with unsupported statements..just doesn't pass master with the real world. As for "statboy" and "sugar"... how clever and witty..you're a real Hemingway.
OOOOOH Hemmingway -- one of my favorites, thanks. By the way Abraham has had 6 whole passes defended in his career. NONE of them came in 2000 when he played in the 3-4. Is that better?
its only off topic because your homeboy guyonthecouch wanted to rant on about how the falcons made it the championship game due to Vick's ability to run and how the offense was better then their defense...now was that on topic? quit siding with your falcons buddies and read the whole thing before you throw up a fftopic: ...capiche?
Ok, about to head to work but I'll post one more before I head out. I believe you don't remember most of it because you didn't read all of it. I understand Football and buisiness. All I stated was JAbe was getting the screws by Jets management. If he's so valuable, offer him a long term contract. If I had an employee that I didn't want to go somewhere else I would entice them with a long term deal. The Jets aren't willing to do that. He's one of your best players because you have allowed others to leave. Why wasn't Santana Moss re-signed? Was he not valuable? The Jets dug thier own hole and now force JAbe to play thier game because they made poor decisions in the past. I mentioned McKay once because he was previously slammed. He is a top 3 candidate. Not Rice or Clinton. Those are rumors created by people that overheard them say they wouldn't mind being the commish. McKay is legit and his background makes him very qualified for it. His educational background mixed in with spending his entire life in the NFL makes him a perfect fit. I'd personally hate to lose him. No guy is happy being tagged but two seasons in a row? Not to mention Jets management have already advised him he's not really wanted because he doesn't fit thier new staffs plans and he can seek out other teams. According to his contract he should be an UFA and the Jets have not offered a new contract but they hold on to him as bartering chips. It's not fair to him and if you were in his shoes you'd feel the exact same way. If he's so valuable, sign him to a long term deal.
WOW.. he plays 6 whole games as a rookie in the 3-4 and you are going to pass career judgements on him. Man, you are harsh. I hope you are not that judgemental with other people in your life.
I see your point. Now don't get mad when I say this cuz I've just been busting your chops.. But from what I can remember from the 00 season is that JA is a GREAT pass rusher, nothing more. He only had 8 tackles that season and 5 sacks. That is pretty impressive stats for a rooke pass rusher. And you do have me here.. you nailed it on the head -- I am very quick to judge people, but that's not what I think I am doing here. What I'm trying to say is -- Why take away one of the best pass rushers in the game by forcing him to play LB? Which would force our Defense to adjust according to his cover skills.
I don't mind the give and take at all..but don't call me SUGAR As I remember as a rookie, he did not start and was very much used as a pass rusher. It was exciting with him in there on 3rd down..but alas, he was hurt. I recognize that he is more of a DE than an OLB. But does that mean he cannot learn..and with the mixture of packages the Patriot schemes use..they are really never in any base defense for a long period anyway. He will need coaching..no question. But I think he can adjust..we will see. And remember LT (and no, Im not saying he's another LT) was not famous for hos pass cover skills but his ability to wreak havoc from a stand up position. PS: I think we will work out a trade with Atlanta anyway and these points will be moot.
