Why Didn't Douglas Take Another WR in the Draft?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NCJetsfan, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I understand your POV here, but I think there's another way of looking at it. Sitting at $48 he had seen the majority of what were considered the top WRs selected. At that point he had several choices:

    1. Stay put and hope there was a WR he wanted to be left.
    2. Trade up and try to secure one.
    3. Trade back and hope that the teams that would now be in front of him didn't need a WR and grab an additional high value pick.

    I don't think there were any WRs left that he thought worth what it would cost to trade up.

    I think he felt there were probably three WRs he'd consider and would be available at #48, and that out of that group none were head and shoulder above the other. Further, he figured at least one would still be there at #59 given the teams in between #48 and #59, so when given the chance to pick up another high value pick and still get a WR he would be happy with, he traded back.

    I can understand the POV that this strategy indicated that Douglas did not/doesn't have a very high premium placed on WRs, but I'm not prepared based upon this draft to draw this conclusion. I think he wound up with a borderline first round WR and a quality RB (though I preferred another WR). I wanted him to take another WR or Antonio Gibson instead of Davis, but Washington took Gibson right before them, and i believe Davis represented more value at a position of need than any WR available at that pick.

    I'm willing to trust he's going to build a winning roster.
     
  2. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    I get it to a degree.

    My issue is that I don't care if it was luck or not. I only care about what is.. Beyond that, it's speculation. You can speculate and predict the what ifs and could have beens if you want, but the truth is, we will never know any other reality than what we got.

    The fact is. Douglas hasn't just sit on his hands at any of these positions you guys are upset about. Obviously you and others think he could've done a bit more.

    The thing is, what's the magic number before you guys are happy? 2-3 WR drafted?

    Maybe it would've been better if we got more. We didn't though.

    Again though, Joey D absolutely went after this positions, regardless. He did draft a WR. He did draft a RB. He drafted one of the top 4 OL. He also tackled the WR position in FA. There is still a possibility of trading for another WR yet. He went after OL hard in FA as well.

    I think the only spot in offense he didn't touch was TE.

    None of us are ever going to be completely aligned as fans. I get that. Way of the world.

    ...but

    I hope fans aren't just blinded by past results from past regimes.

    Joey D definitely focused on the offensive side of the ball. He also did work on the defensive side of the ball. He is tackling a lot on this roster. Which is already more than the last few GMs we've had.

    I just don't understand the amount of negativity over not drafting one more WR and not focusing on a back up QB yet?

    Look at the QB market right now. Go look at who is available. I truly don't believe there needs to be a serious rush right now with all the players available for a potential backup option.

    I understand how you could take it the way you did but I look at how many quality backups are out there and it's actually kinda crazy.

    Anyway. I hope you guys give it some time, understand that moves can still be made and we haven't even started practices yet.

    Good convo as always, sir.
     
  3. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    I just think you are expecting too much from this off-season. I get you want more WR talent on this team. I do too.

    I just think a GM can only do so much when he's handed such a shameful roster from the jump.

    I believe he will be able to focus way more at the skill positions for this team following this year.

    I think Joey D tackled the foundational pieces the right way this off-season and still made it a point to focus on every position on offense, aside from TE.

    That's impressive to me.

    I want more too, but I'm more than happy with what he's been able to accomplish so far. Given the teams poor shape prior to this off-season.

    Next year. If he doesn't focus more on infusing better talent at the skill positions, I will also be concerned.

    I think he will though.

    Hell, he may even find a sexy trade before the season starts.

    I'm excited to find out how it all shakes out. Which is all I can ask for right now. Given how miserable it's been to be a fan of this team for the last 8-9 years. Sigh.
     
  4. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Why does not drafting a TE become a negative all of a sudden, we have a top prospect hopefully coming back fit and sober and a veteran who showed everybody that he was no back number last season. We have an understudy in Brown who can catch and we have another that blocks.

    How many more of these done need on a squad?

    Selecting a TE would have been a true waste if a pick imo.

    Probably the one position we look good in atm on offence.
     
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  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Initially, I was upset that he didn't take another WR. By and large, I'm over that now. I like that Douglas not only has the desire and ability to trade down, but he did it twice. What I'm upset with is his lack of making backup QB a priority, and his lack of making WR a priority. Perriman was a decent signing to replace Anderson. If Perriman plays anywhere near to the level he did at the end of last season, it will have been a great move, but if not that will be a very different story. Counting on getting anything much from Josh Doctson or Quincy Enunwa, is borderline malfeasance. In that situation, to risk losing the lone really good remaining WR prospect by trading down 11 places is not acceptable imo. It totally says that Douglas views WR as an unimportant position, that it wasn't a need, and that Douglas didn't need to follow the standard accepted logic and reasoning of surrounding a young QB with playmaking talent. Thus, that is a big red flag for me. Yes, it's nice that he got lucky and got Mims and was able to address some other positions and add additional players as well. That should help the rebuild go faster, but again, that could have all been for naught if he missed out on Mims, Enunwa, Doctson and Perriman contributed little, and then Sam wound up failing as a FQB. IMO it was a foohardy, greedy, and needless risk. That should concern you. Luck runs out eventually. If our new GM has flawed reasoning and doesn't value WRs in a passing league and when he has a young QB that he's hoping will develop into a FQB, then we're in trouble and things aren't going to get much better.

    He was not filling all our needs in one draft anyway, and risking losing Mims to gain an additional pick was foolish and not sound judgment. I guarantee you that if he had missed on Mims a large segment of the Jets fan base would have been in revolt, and the media would have ripped him a new asshole, and rightfully so. It would have been wiser to stay put at #48 and take Mims there rather than risk losing him. I have zero confidence that if he had missed on Mims at #59 that he would have taken Bryan Edwards there. I believe that he would have taken Ashtyn Davis at that spot, or maybe Josh Uche, Kristian Fulton, or Julian Okwara. If he took one of the others and not Davis at #59, he would have probably taken Davis at #68. He might then have taken Bryan Edwards at #79, but Edwards isn't nearly the prospect that Mims is. I could also just as easily have seen him take Cushenberry or Matt Hennessy there, if his taking one of those 3 defensive players at #59 somehow caused Hennesy to be there at #79. Then where would we be?

    I don't think that anyone thought that TE was a need this year except Boozer. The consensus needs were LT, WR, Edge, CB, IOL, P & K, in roughly that order. Drafting a QB wasn't really a need, just more a good thing to do to begin developing a backup QB for the future or developing a QB that can be traded later. It certainly shouldn't have been a consideration to draft as the backup for 2020. S should not have even been a consideration if if meant missing out on adding a player at one of those positions. I get that the draft is about adding talent and not just addressing need, and that drafting a lesser player at a position of need over a better player at another position is not idea, but when a team has as many holes as the Jets did, and to some extent still do, and the way some needs have been ignored on this team for almost a decade, then it becomes a necessity to prioritize need, and it should not have been hard to find very good players at positions of need that were close to the same level of those players at positions that were needs. Once a couple of offseasons had gone by and the major glaring holes fixed/addressed, then he could have reverted to drafting solely for BPA or drafting a year early to replace players rather than a year late.

    Who are all these quality backup QBs who are out there? I just looked at the FA list and I really don't see a single QB on that list that I think would be a good signing other than Dalton. I don't even think there was a good list before FA started.

    Hopefully, things/this draft will work out and subsequent drafts will be better, and show better judgment, and my hope will be restored. I have much less hope and confidence in Douglas than I did, and the future doesn't look nearly as promising to me. I'm not giving up, but have lost a lot of enthusiasm and joy.

    Thanks for being able to see things from my perspective. That helps.

    Instead of solidifying my trust in him and building my confidence in him, he pretty much destroyed my trust and confidence in him. Now, I'm not so delusional or arrogant to think that he cares a whit about what I or any other fan think, nor should he, but if I can't have some level of trust that he will be a good GM, then my days as a Jets fan may be coming to an end. I've seen enough incompetence and stupidity from Jets' owners, GMs and HCs to last several lifetimes. I'm sick of being disappointed, frustrated, my hopes crushed, and having my guts ripped out every time there's a new hire and I have a glimmer of optimism. I can't become cynical like some here seem to have the ability to do. If I can't be positive and hopeful about something I love, then it's time for me to walk away. I would have been fine if he hadn't opened his mouth and revealed his flawed judgment on Boomer & Gio.
     
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  6. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but what you said doesn't make sense. You said, "Sitting at #48 he had seen the majority of what were considered the top WRs selected. At that point he had several choices:" So once he was sitting at #48 and most of the best WRs had already been taken, there was no option #2 of trading up. It was too late for that. He had said that they had Mims rated so highly that he expected him to go in the first 5 picks of the second round, so the #1 option is the one that should have been in play. There was a WR there he supposedly wanted and had rated highly, yet he took option #3 and stupidly risked losing that WR. His stating that he thought that Mims was so good that he would go in the first 5 picks of the 2nd round makes your conjecture (that I bolded) wrong.

    I don't know why you wouldn't be prepared to draw that conclusion. We ALL knew what a need WR was. We all knew how long it had been since the Jets had drafted a WR high successfully, and had only drafted Devin Smith high within the last ten years or so. Yes, he wound up with a WR that is a borderline 1st round pick, but only because of dumb luck. By all rights and by Douglas' own rankings, Mims should never have been there at #59, and the Jets would have been sucking wind at the WR position. I'm shocked that you and others can't see the dumb risk he took for what it was foolish, stupid and unnecessary, and that you aren't concerned with his judgment and his priorities not being in the right place.

    Yes, by pick #68 all of the topflight WR prospects were gone. Mims was the last one. That's why trading down and not taking Mims at #48 was totally freaking stupid imo. If Mims had been gone, there probably would have been no WR left who could have given us anything of consequence this season when Sam needs help.

    If Douglas' plan doesn't include drafting topflight playmaking talent to surround Sam with and help him develop into a FQB, then Douglas can shove his plan up his ass and join Mac in the unemployment line as far as I'm concerned.

    I hope for your sake and all other Jets' fans that you're right, but I no longer have any confidence that he will, and even if he does, I may no longer care. Right now, I think he's only marginally better than Mac in setting his priorities, and is certainly no Ozzie.
     
    #186 NCJetsfan, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I would have expected better from you, and not expected you to fall in the same irrational way of thinking that other posters here have. Who previous GMs drafted and their failure rate has nothing to do with who Douglas drafts. It's TOTALLY irrational to make the bolded statement that you made above.
     
  8. Attackett

    Attackett Well-Known Member

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    Someone thinks Joe D did a pretty good job.

     
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  9. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    JD nailed a grand slam HR with his first ever offseason and draft.
     
    #189 DefenseWinsChampionships, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  10. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Fuck me, can you not even watch a football draft video without the most blatant product placement happening, it was that bad and so blatant I knocked the fucker off as it was annoying me so much.
     
  11. mattyd99

    mattyd99 Well-Known Member

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    Without seeing Douglas' draft board it's kind of hard for me to get upset at him for potentially losing Mims. Did he have Jefferson at the same rating and expect to get him? Maybe Edwards was higher on his board than others. Maybe he knew the 10 teams between the picks didn't like Mims or had someone higher(Hamler). This is info we're not privy too and understandably.

    I think his plan the whole time was to grab as many picks as possible and fill holes even if it meant losing out on slightly better players. This year, that was the right move with this roster. Now if these guys pan out, and the following drafts do and he's still trading back and missing out on superior talent I'm gonna be upset with him.
     
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  12. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    If you listen to the interview Douglas had a few days ago, he said that when he traded back, he was freaking out the entire time and was stunned that Mims was still there when it came our time to pick.

    Pretty cool hearing him talk about all the picks and his mindset during the process. Another poster posted it in its own thread on here. I encourage you to listen
     
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  13. mattyd99

    mattyd99 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, yeah that's a good listen. Unless I missed something I think it reinforces my idea that was willing to go quantity over quality.
     
  14. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Everyone thought we had a good draft except for people in this thread.
     
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  15. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    Jameis Winston
    Andy Dalton
    Matt Simms
    Joe Flacco
    Blake Bortles
    Mike Glennon
    Cody Kessler

    No, the list doesn't make you jump for joy. It's a good list though compared to most options at the backup position. I mean, realistically, you're not supposed to find all stars at the backup position anyway.

    You are still speculating, I'm not getting wrapped up in that game. It's just impossible to know what could've been and the what It's. It'll drive you nuts.

    That's not even in regard to this topic. I apply that to everything In life to avoid that anxiety that can come from the speculation game. I'll pass.

    I am glad we got, Mims. I'm very happy with the draft we had. To come away with that draft haul and those players.

    If you look at your need list, did he not tackle every single one of those positions this off season?

    If you stopped speculating and let go of some statements made in a recent interview. If you looked at just the moves made, as a whole, this off season. That doesn't spark confidence at all? Honestly?

    Look at the all the off seasons since we've made the playoffs. You don't think this was the best off season we've had since then?

    For me, it's night and day. Hands down. Not even close.

    I'm curious in all honesty though. If you took away these gripes that you have over things that haven't happened or could've happened, what are you left with? In your opinion.
     
  16. alleycat9

    alleycat9 Well-Known Member

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    there are still a number of qbs that have nfl experience that are available in free agency. the market seems to be down on them right now. i would have preferred to see what they can do to add depth there rather than in the 4th round. and having a guy who isnt your top bpa but within a few is still drafting bpa. its not like they had a wr that was 30 guys down, at least thats not what i got out of that convo. he said a few iirc. picks id assume not rounds.

    overall i cant complain at this point though. lets see what gase can do now.
     
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  17. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I believe it’s just a discussion that’s it, I’m certain that all of Jets fans are happy with the draft, I know I am.

    Did you listen to the interview with Boomer and Gio that someone posted?

    Joe admitted he was nervous that Mims wouldn’t be there after the trade back, so his priority at that point was to trade back and gamble Mims was not taken.

    I’m not sure that’s how you want to approach the draft especially if a player you want is there to begin with.

    I like the draft and I believe Jets can find another diamond in the rough WR with the UDFA, similar to how hey found Anderson.

    The hardest part of drafting is finding the FQB, Jets have a good one, they just need to fill in the rest of the holes. This draft started that process.
     
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  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    It's the best offseason we've had in a long time, but at least some of that is by default because the other GMs were so incompetent.

    For the most part, I liked the way he handled FA. I like that he saw the need to trade down and did. I like that he's not afraid to trade with the Patriots. I think his eye for talent and character is better than any of our recent previous GMs. That gives me some confidence, but all of that can be undermined by having his priorities confused and making poor decisions/judgments.

    As far as tackling every one of the need positions, that was part of my point. I don't think it was smart to try to address every single one. It was just too many needs. In order to address all those needs, he had to trade down twice, and that's what could have cost us Mims. It certainly cost us a 2nd WR and a better RB prospect.

    Yes, I did some speculation on who he might have taken if Mims wasn't there at #59, but when one has a chance to take a player one has highly rated at a glaring need, and passes on him in order to trade down and garner more picks, it's not speculation. It's fact.

    It was the best offseason we've had in a long time, but it could have been better, and if we missed on Mims, it would not have been nearly as good. Hopefully, we'll be OK this season, and Douglas will indeed draft another WR high next year.
     
    #198 NCJetsfan, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  19. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Do you not think he was just blowing smoke up Mimm's arse? You saw how much of a chip he had on his shoulder about dropping so far down the draft, can you imagine Mimm's face and attitude if he heard JD say, yeah I traded back as I knew Mimm's was dropping like a stone and I could still get him later in the draft.

    What is it about Doctson that you don't like? He was okay at Washington, now admittedly I am not sure what happened last season at the Vikings but he is worth another go as Perriman has shown last season if they get the chance and some balls thrown their way then maybe they aren't actually a lost cause.

    As for the liking and unliking of a bloke as quick as that, fuck me man how reactionary is this? I would expect better from you tbh.

    The draft "on paper" is the best we have had for a long time and now you are giving JD a kicking in every post you mention him in, "stupid" "hate" strong words on the back of possibly the best draft we have had in 10 years lol

    As for the 4th round rookie being thrown to the wolves how many rookies played last season?

    Kyler Murray round 1
    Daniel Jones round 1
    Will Grier round 3
    Ryan Finley round 4
    Gardener Minshew round 6


    Kyle Allen undrafted but played 2 games in 18/19 season.

    I would be happy to take my chances with ours, he can't be any worse than Fales, Folk and Siemian last season.
     
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I agree. He was looking to build a foundation. It wasn't necessary at that point to decide on whether it would be 3 or 4 bedrooms, or whether there would be a den or a great room...he needed a solid foundation because the past several GMs had failed to do that. They were all about figuring out the roof lines and paint schemes while the foundation was cracked and crumbling. Given the state of the team, Douglas made great strides in improving it, and I expect more improvement going forward.
     
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