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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by patleahy, May 20, 2021.
My original comment was snarkier than I intended it to be. No problem.
The players may have hated Mangini, but his teams played tough, smart, disciplined football, and they didn't beat themselves very often. Sorry, but I don't think he belongs on a list of our worst HCs. IMO he was one of our best HCs, he just was too much of a control freak and a micro manager. He had a good eye for talent also.
I respectfully disagree. Tanny was a bean counter and attorney. He didn't know jack shit himself. Mangini and Rex had a huge amount of input into the drafts.
I never heard this before, and have never seen you or anyone else state it here when Gholston or Mangini's name came up. Where did you see this?
Most Jets fans wanted Abe gone. He was always hurt or sick and in some of the biggest games he either didn't play or didn't make any impact on the game.
Gase definitely did the organization and all of us a favor by getting Mac hired and helping to get JD hired.
Kotite was awful, but the thing is he didn't care. For whatever reason, he never worked the team hard. He would leave practice early to miss traffic, and the practices were soft and a joke. If he had cared, I think he would have done pretty well. Gase cared and tried, but still was awful. For me, that is the difference, and why I voted for Gase. (After reading this thread and reflecting upon how awful it was when Kotite was the HC, I changed my vote to Kotite.) When you're trying and you're awful, imo that's worse than when you're not trying and are awful. Still, the team was just flat out embarrasing and a joke under Kotite.
Two of Kotite's QBs were Bubby Brister and Jack Trudeau. Even Sam is better than them.
That said, as inept as the Jets looked under Gase, the team never quit, and they never looked as comically bad as the Jets did under Kotite. I mean how in the hell does a defensive player intercept a pitch and run it in for a TD? It was a constant buttfumble and clusterfuck under Kotite.
They're both awful, and I wish I could have voted for both to be shot into the sun.
@NCJetsfan I dunno, NC...Bubby had his moments....2 time super bowl champion....led the Steelers to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 1989....I would take Bubby at his best over what Sam has shown us thus far....
@NCJetsfan it is interesting to hear you say this, NC because @bicketybam said the same exact thing in this thread...he said that everyone knew that Kotite was a lazy bastard while he was here and was just stealing old man Hess's money. Granted I was a kid at the time, but I just thought Richie was incompetent...I didnt know that he was a goldbricker who apparently just didn't give a shit about anything other than cashing his paycheck while he was here.
Great posts on Walton, Coslet and the 80s Jets. Thanks! I didn't know the last tidbit. That's pretty amazing, and pretty sad that we hadn't had a road shutout before then because we've had some good DCs and defensive players over the years (Bud Carson, Pete Carroll, and Walt Michaels). Whoa, knock me over with a feather! I remembered that Buddy Ryan had been one of our DCs, but when I just looked it up, he was only DL coach from '68-75, but never our DC.
@NCJetsfan props for remembering that Ryan was on Ewbank's staff back in the day, NC.
It was all over the news back then and not a secret. The scouting department was outraged and besides themselves. They did not consider Ghoulston to be a player worthy of using a high pick and wanted nothing to do with him but Mangini loved him. It was a war that Mangini's ego won. I am sure other people here recall that story. But the most outrageous thing that I heard about Mangini was a story that came out after he got fired from Cleveland. Holmgren drafted Colt McCoy and Mangini did not like the pick so Mangini orderded that McCoy always get the gameplan one day after the other QBS and none of the coaches were allowed to talk with McCoy. The Browns had two QB injuries and McCoy became the starter but he still got the gameplan one day late and none of the coaches were allowed to talk with him. Mangini was then promptly fired. Westoff did an interview on a podcast last year where he talked a little about Mangini's mental health problems. He said that Mangini needed an older coach to set him straight when he would come up with a crazy idea and usually that was Westoff going to him and explaining why what he planned was not a good idea and he should not do it. Westoff said when Mangini went to Cleveland he went off the deep end without someone to keep him in check. You probably can find the Westoff podcast as it was the same one where he said he owned a lake house and if you put Sanchez in front of the lake and asked him to throw the ball in the lake that he would miss the lake everytime.
@Noam so Mangini was kind of nutty in the head, huh Noam?!!
It appears he was batshit crazy. As much as I dislike Cimini I give him credit here. Two weeks into Manginis 1st camp he made a few reports that implied in his snide way that there might be something wrong. In this case Cimini was right.
But isn't that the case with a lot of coaches. It has been written that the 2000 Jet players led a mutiny against Al Groh which led to him leaving. Then there is the Walt Michael's drinking and paranoia problems which brings up the famous half time phone call in the Raider playoff game. So maybe the line between brilliant and crazy is quite thin. I will say this Mangini's 2008 Jets are arguably the most talented team in Jet history with 12 players either in the pro bowl or pro bowl alternates.
@Noam I hear heard about Michael's sad breakdown, but what is the story behind Groh leaving to go to UVA after only one year? I had never heard about a player mutiny that forced him out. Can you tell me more about that???
I wish I could tell you more. All I read was that the players revolted against him. I don't recall any specifics or even if there were specifics even mentioned. It is kind if shocking to think that was over 20 years ago.
@Noam yeah I hear you Noam...time flies man, time flies.... and the older u get, the faster it seems to go....
I disagree. Belichick didn't set this team back by quitting. He would have made it better if he stayed or at least tried until he got fed up with Woody Johnson. It was Woody Johnson's stupidity that set this team back. Blaming Belichick is ridiculous.
Bubby wasn't really responsible for those Steeler wins. They carried him, just as the 2009 Jets' team carried Sanchez.
Thanks, but actually, I didn't. LOL I thought he was the DC at some point, but he wasn't. I googled to see who else had been the Jets' DC prior to that and didn't see his name. I then googled Ryan and saw that he had been the DL coach under Weeb.
That's wild. At the time I was posting on another Jets board but lurked here and a couple of other Jets' boards, and never saw that mentioned there or on the internet or news, and Gholston and Mangini have been mentioned continuously over the years, and that never mentioned. I think it's possible that it may not be as well known as you think it is.
I never heard the stuff about Mangini's mental illness or what he did in Cleveland either. For someone who has practically lived on Jets fan sites for the last 20-25 years, that's bizarre.
I'm totally gobsmacked and flummoxed. I don't know how I ever missed that.