dont forget James Jones showed up big in spots for them too. and Jordy Nelson was a few drops away from dominating the whole SB aside from the key plays he made.
No, no other QB besides Brady can do what Brady does within that system. We've seen it for years, with some modification during the Randy Moss era. It's why, if you look back, I was able to say the day Woodhead signed with the Pats that he'd be very good in that system. They run it fantastically, know which guys will fit in phenomenally (that's a track record you CAN follow), and have a QB ideally suited to run it. It's a perfect match. You do belittle people. Just about everyone, in fact. You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize that, and yet...I suspect you do. It IS fun, which I'm sure is why you continue arguing the way you do, even though you know that occasionally you come off looking VERY poorly. Take a look at the above post. Seems to me that's a tough line to swallow right about now. Why, because I said he was a Top 3 QB in this league if you took him out of it, but will perhaps be remembered as the best ever in it? I never knew Top 3 QB was a derogatory term. Perfect marriage. Already noted. Would you like to compare Brady's skillset to the QBs who came before him? See above. I don't disagree that Brady is ahead of Manning right now in reality. I never did. He's in a system that will help him to go down as perhaps the greatest of all time instead of simply one of the best of his generation. How in the world can you make that argument? The defense and running game primarily built that lead. Ben's handful of plays couldn't have come from anyone else? Are you really going to tell me that? You don't think Peyton would have built an even more insurmountable lead and remained consistent in the second half with Rashard Mendenhall and the Steelers D? Think carefully about that one. That's what this entire thread is about, and you listed Ben ahead...and now you're saying he's NOT a better QB? Make up your mind. Peyton makes plays all game. Ben's hot and cold. He doesn't HAVE to be great to win. He doesn't even have to be very good. Peyton does. Brady does. Vick does. Rodgers does. Brees does. A few plays make a competitor. They don't make a QB.
If no other QB can run it like Brady wouldn't that make Brady the system? if BB was so smart why did he sign Bledsoe to a then record deal in March of 2001? I don't intentionally belittle people but I love how people will whine about that yet I get attacked more than anyone here and that's ok. I can take it, you guys should be able to if you that that I belittle you. What line did I change? what point did I ignore? Again, if he is the only one that can have success in that system how does the system get any credit for his success? defense and running game? The pitt D was abrely on the field in the first half as the Pitt O controlled the clock and how did they control? W/ Ben making big plays on 3rd downs to extend drives. They built the 17-0 lead on offense, they extended it w/ the fumble, our O brought us back in the agme then when ben had another important drive to finish off the game he got TWO 1st downs. Ben was the MVP of that game for Pitt. The difference btw us losing in rd 1 and the title game was in rd 1 Peyton couldn't get a 1st down to end it and in the title game Ben was able to create TWO to win it. You don't see that in QB ratings. Again, my list was from this year. Ben led another team to the SB while peyton nearly threw away his teams season. Career- peyton is ahead of ben this year- Ben ahead of peyton. if I need to win a big game in January I take Ben. if Peyton is making plays all game why does he struggle so much in January? There is a reason he is 9-10 as a starting QB in postseason agmes and ben is 10-3.
^ Peyton has been playing most of his career without a defense....while Ben has been playing with a top 5 defense for his entire career. It's not all on the QB when looking at post season records, junc. Try and factor ALL the variables into the argument.
The Indy defense has been underrated. Sure the Pitt D is better but the Indy D has been very good in postseason w/ the exception of a couple of games. people act like Peyton has had the worst defense in the league In 19 postseason games w/ Peyton vs. 19 postseason games w/ Brady: Colts D: 355 pts allowed in regulation, 18.7 PPG Pats D: 370 pts allowed in regulation, 19.4 PPG Pitt D: 242 pts in 13 games w/ Ben, 18.6 PPG Is there a huge difference btw 18.8 and 18.7?
I still think Manning is the best QB. Hell, the guy is practically an offensive coordinator for his team. He gifted Dungy a SB and he very nearly went a perfect season with the dipshit replacement coach. Brady has the rings, and maybe it's just the fanboy talking, but I don't think he's a HOF QB without Belichick and co. If I have a team with no mastermind coaching staff, run game, and talent at WR, then I'm going with Manning or Rodgers.
I agree Peyton carried caldwell BUT: Dungy reached an NFC Title game w/ Shaun King as his starting QB in Tampa(and nearly beat the Rams that year). The great Bill belichick was never close to a conf title game w/o Tom Brady.
That's a good point (and I'm serving up completely hypothetical BS here, I know), but I honestly think Dungy doesn't get to a Superbowl without Manning (and Manning proved he could get to one with an idiot head coach). With the Belichick-Brady relationship, I think Belly would be better off with an average QB (Pats won 11 or so games with Matt Cassel) than Brady would be with, say, Dungy.
BB had many years to get to the SB w/o Brady and failed. At least Dungy got close. Remember, manning had never even won a playoff game until ungy became his HC. I think Dungy would have broke through eventually if he didn't go to Indy, I don't think BB would even be a HC today if not for Brady.
Yet you blame Ken O'Brien for the playoff loss against the Browns in 87 when the Jets defense did the exact same thing?
I don't solely blame o'Brien but we lost in double OT, our offense had numerous chances to win that game. We only scored 7 pts after o'brien came in for Pat Ryan, ken O'Brien was one of my favorite players but I have to be honest. he killed us that day and down the stretch.
Somehow I am not surprised this thread took off while I was out yesterday. :lol: If you were to tell me that you ranked Manning 5th because of how he played this particular year; that you were ranking all of them based on how they fared this year - I would agree. Although I would immediately think you are nuts putting Brady first. There just isn't anyway that Manning is not better than Roethlisberger based on their cumulative successes right now. Because he's been to 3 Super Bowls and he won a couple of rings? Not enough. Dan Marino was better than Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers and he doesn't have a ring of his own. I'd probably still put him ahead of Manning as well despite his having shattered his records. And I hate the guy. Still, Manning is a damn good QB, the top of the heap next to Brady. I think you can make a solid argument that he is better than Brady to some extent as well. And I couldn't say that about anyone on the list below Brady.
I did say it was based on this year. based on careers so far: Brady Manning Ben Brees Rivers Dan Marino didn't have SB caliber talent around him like peyton manning has had for most of his career. Marino elevated average talent, Manning has elite talent around him and cannot win.
If you base it just on this year how does Rodgers not get the #1 spot and how does Brady, who sucked in his one playoff game, get the #1 spot?
If I also include postseason I wouldn't have a huge problem moving Rodgers to 1 but the gap in the reg season was huge and Brady didn't have half the talent around him that Rodgers had so that's why I have Brady at 1.
I still look at Brady and Manning as 1-A and 1-B. Right now, based on the most recent season, Brady has a slight edge. If you think about the progression of their careers, they've flip-flopped on the "who's better?" question. From 2001-2003 or so, Brady got the nod for winning championships. Manning had the edge in 2004-2006, but then Brady had his monster 2007 season. Then he gets hurt, Manning reclaims the top spot for 2008-2009, and then Brady takes it back in 2010. It makes more sense to me to wait until both guys are done before making any definitive proclamations as to who's better. Either of them could still win multiple MVPs, multiple Super Bowls, etc. Or they could both start declining. We just don't know. Behind those two, who are clearly in their own group/category, I'd lump together guys like Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Rivers. All have had varying degrees of success, and in different ways. If I was starting an NFL team today though, and had to pick one of any of them, it may be Rodgers since he's the youngest of the bunch.
For s single season it's a little different. Then you are essentailly saying the SB winning QB had the best year of any QB, I look for sustained success in postseason to evaluate careers. One postseason could be a fluke.
I figured you were going with current year, but I just didn't get the Brady being 1st. In fact, if I were doing it based solely on this year, I would drop Brees, and put Sanchez on the list. Second year kid on the road to another AFCCG deserves some credit. I think he still belongs a few pegs lower on the overall scale. Give him some time though and he can make it to the top. :up:
