+1. It is a legitimate question particularly in the context of our QB history over the past seven years when the subject of "arm strength" was one of the most frequent topics of discussion/debate.
Actually they dropped quite a few potential INTs or he would have been even worse. For all the ragging on Chad's arm over the years, we were rarely plagued by dropped passes because he threw a perfect ball. That was one of the first things we heard about when he took over for Vinny. Nice to have a cannon arm, but if you can't hit the right guys and they can't catch it when you do, it's pretty pointless.
I dont think they could go on arm strength alone either. I am sure it will be a variety of factors. I think it will be a interesting match up between the 2 guys. Clemens one big advantage is he does have some real NFL experience, though Ratliff appears to have more potential. If Clemens is a clear winner, he gets the job. The same goes for Brett. But if its a dead heat, it'll be interesting to see who gets the job, experience or potential? It does sound like in the FO its pretty much split between the 2, with maybe a few more on Brett's wagon. Besides the "Rex" factor, it will add a lot of attention to TC this year.
Of the many elements that go into a good NFL arm one is this: is your arm strong enough for you to throw off your back foot, or while your twisting around, etc. Pennington has enough on his passes when he can step into them and use his hips and legs, body etc. But he can't make that awkward throw at the last minute with no wind up and still put mustard on it. Plus to me its arm strength is about throwing the out route on a string and putting it on the button.
I agree and posted the same thing on page two of this thread, but it went completely unnoticed and was ignored as was your post. I am amazed that people can talk about arm strength for 5 pages when there are so many components that make up an NFL QB. This is typical Jet fan post Pennington nonsense.
I certainly agree that arm strength is not the only, nor the most important, measure of a QB's ability - there are obviously a whole set of skills that combine to make a guy successful or not. Anyone who thinks that a big arm automatically equals success is obviously boneheaded. However, when the thread happens to be a discussion about who might have the stronger arm, it seems only natural that people posting on that thread will be discussing arm strength as opposed to the other elements of the QB position. It may not be the only factor that matters, but it's definitely something to be considered.
Yeah, it's pretty shocking that people are talking about arm strength for 5 pages in a thread about arm strength :rofl:
You are missing the point. It is shocking that people would spend 5 pages talking about the arm strength of Clemens and Ratliff. What's next, 5 pages on which one has the faster 40 time? What kind of cleats they wear??? Cup or no cup?? Should we time their drop back speed? I want a QB that can move the offense, score points, avoide turnovers and win games. If a QB can do those things, arm strength is not important. But ever since 2002, all Jet fans care about is QB arm strength, as if that is the only way to measure a QB.
Rats has the goods, hands down. In preseason, he reminded me of Chad with a great arm. That is a combo pretty hard to overlook.
Perhaps and perhaps not. Over the years, how many pages would you guess were dedicated to discussing Chad's arm strength or lack thereof? I've not been here that long but I would guess the number is fairly substantial. While most would agree that a QB having great arm strength is meaningless in the absence of other essential characteristics such as accuracy, decision making, intelligence, leadership and the ability to thrive in the clutch/under pressure, it can be a tremendous asset if the strong armed QB in question in fact does possess the other desired traits. 40 times for a running back or wideout are an important tangible measure but by themselves mean little if the player is profoundly lacking in other essential qualities. Curtis Martin, for example was a quick, tough, high character player with tremendous elusiveness and cut back ability. His 40 times, however, were considered to be on the slow side which is why he was never really a home run threat. This brings me to the present topic. Ratliff and Clemens are being compared herein strictly on the basis of their arm strength. Clemens may turn out to be the better QB in every other relevant category which would easily land him the starting job. If, however, they graded out equally everywhere with the exception of arm strength, which QB do you think would get the nod? I'm guessing the one with the better arm strength which is why I think the topic is relevant. Or let me put it in hypothetical terms: if we had Curtis Martin in his prime and and a back identical in size weight, talent, ability and style except he ran the 40 in 4.3 rather than Martin's 4.65, which one do you think would be the starter and would the discussion of their respective 40 times be relevant to you in making that decision?
But in evaluating QB's you need to start at what you want most in your QB then work from there. Chad had no arm but great accuracy and decision making Farve had all arm average accuracy and rather shitty decision making. We would like to choose a QB with an arm and then work from there. You can teach a guy to have better decision making and accuracy its almost impossible to get a QB to have a stronger arm.
So then who needs preseason or a QB competition? Let's just get a radar gun and have each QB throw 5 passes. The one who throws the fastest pass on average is the new Jet QB. Then we don't have to talk arm strength nonsense for a while. Or maybe we then can move to who has the better Madden rating. That is also important to many knowledgeable fans on the TGG board.
You could do that and then see if he has the other variables. Or you could have them throw through tires and then go from there. I'm saying that I want a QB with a strong arm if both (Kellen or Brett) have it thats great then I will compare them at the next variable (decision making accuracy) you got to have something you want most in your qb then work from there. I dont know where you think I meant didnt have to have competition and all that. And I'm not one of the madden posters the only I use Madden for is entertainment and to keep track of other teams depth charts.
Well, Wideouts Should Answer This Question... You never like a quarterback who wants to show off his strength on six yards and out, or eight yards and butt-n-hook routes. Trying to knock your head off may impress the coach, but it trully angers the guy on the receiving end. It's not necessary. There are two "ball attitude" problems that QBs and wideouts struggle with: (a) No wideout prays for a pass with the ball's forward point directed downward toward you -- this downward angle is tough to stop and control. (b) The optimal attitude for a ball coming at you is for the forward point to be angled upwards, not down. Somehow, the wideout can see it better, and doesn't feel that the ball is an antagonism. He can catch it, no sweat. Of course, there is a problem with throwing a "sailor", with the forward point headed "upward" -- it can sail right over your head way above your outstretched and panicked hands as it gains momentum from the air its trying to cut through. One more thing of interest: Spirals are cool when the wind is blowing, because they tend to keep the ball headed in the direction intended. Wobbly throws, no matter how much muscle is behind their launch, tend to lose their minds, and become an "adventure" for the hapless wideout trying to perceive the QB's intent. It also helps that the wideouts are not so intense that they instantly develop "hands of stone" when the ball arrives. This has to do with their expectation of the QB's intent -- if he is desparate for a completion, then like as not he's going to fling the ball with abandon, and it's up to the wideout to try and manage the tornado coming at him. If the QB's sure of the play, the ball comes in there like a deliberate cotton ball nestling in with its front point up where it's supposed to be, so the wideout can grab it and take off to parts rewarding. ...Just a little commentary on the problem for ya'll to ponder.
Dude, it's called a "6 yard out" or a "button hook". Not a "six yards and out" or "butt-n-hook". Spirals are "cool" when the wind is blowing? WTF? You always want your QB to throw a spiral, that's the best way for it to reach it's intended location and for a receiver to catch it. I don't believe receivers are ever tying to "perceive the QB's intent" when catching a ball. They're just trying to catch the ball. What in the god damn hell does this mean? The wideouts are not so intense that they develop hands of stone when the ball arrives? WHAT? GTFOH. a cotton ball nestling in???? WTF???????? You realize this is a football message board, right?
What is shocking to believe is believing a QB who has a crappy arm and lacks mobility is going to move the offense, score point, aviod turnovers and win games against a playoff guantlett that will pit him against smartly coached above average athletes. Chad last year had all the ingredients you described and in the playoffs against a smart athletic defense didn't move the team, didn't score point and didn't aviod turnovers. A good arm is essential because game situations dictate risk as much as smarts do and being able to fit a ball into a tighter spot than one would like is an essential component to scoring, avioding turnovers, moving your team down the field and winning games. The other factor is the playoffs are an elimination tournament winning % means squat in the playoffs other than seeding.
LOL to that whole exchange. That was one of the funniest things I've read on this board. I have no idea what it all meant either but it was an entertaining read!
Did you watch all the playoff games last year? What playoff QB actually did have a good game against their defense? Chad....nope (but he did lead a TD drive that you seem to have forgotten). Collins.....nope (and he has a strong arm). Big Ben.......nope, he played very poorly. Pitt won that game because the ravens offense could not stand up to the Pitt defense. The reality was that last years postseason ravens would have make just about any QB look bad. Stong arm, veteran, mobile, it didn't matter.
