One of the criticisms of Browning Nagle was that he didn't throw a catchable ball. Read here: http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/13/sports/pro-football-nagle-to-make-job-pitch-on-field.html Nagle concedes that he doesn't always make the proper decisions on the field, but he believes he's getting better. During the off season he changed the mechanics of his passing, going to a more overhand style, which he feels softens his passes and makes them more catchable.
If last year's preseason stats were to be used as a micro sampling to compare accuracy and/or "catchability," between scrub -time passes thrown by Ratliff and Clemens, it would look like this: Ratliff: 32-47 499, Yds 4 TD 68.1 Comp% 10.6 YDs/Att 71 Long 122.6 QB Rating Clemens: 21-38, 195 Yds 0 TD 55.3 Comp% 5.5 YDs/Att 34 Long 69.5 QB Rating
Say what you want, but those two bombs Ratliff threw to Clowny during preseason last year were absolutely gorgeous.
Preseason means nothing for a starting QB when he's not going up against first string players... Great preseason for Ratliff last year against alot of guys who are no longer in the nfl, but please...Dont expect those types of numbers with a QB Rating of over 100 during the regualr season because it wont happen and as a fan, your only setting yourself up for failure. Great numbers for Ratliff, he has potential, but those numbers mean jack shit on Sundays and dont expect Clowney just to run right by elite CB's and Safetys @ the NFL Level because thats just what he did vs the backups, ran right past em.
It's more than just numbers dude, watch him play. People have a reason to be excited about his potential. His mechanics looked solid, he stood firm in the pocket and seemed to have above average arm strength. Does all this mean he's gonna be the next Montana? Not necessarily, but I bet that guy Tom Brady looked pretty solid when he was a rookie in preseason.
The purpose of my post was not to draw any sort of conclusions whatsoever. The subject I was addressing was the "catchability" of balls thrown by Clemens and Ratliff and the only available basis for comparison was last year's preseason where both Kellen and Brett played with and against 2nd and 3rd stringers. More specifically, I was addressing Mr. Biggs' remark in which he was most likely playfully suggesting that there was an extremely limited body of work on behalf of Ratliff (5 passes) to fairly assess the "catchability" of his passes.
Guess who put up these numbers in the 2007 pre-season. 28 for 39 352 4TD 2INT. I don't no where to look but I would suggest those were quite a bit better than Pennington's 07 pre-season numbers.
I don't know. I know Clemens did have a nice preseason in 2007, however, where he was 30-41/364 4TD 2 INT 73.2 Comp% 45 long 8.9 Yds/Att and a 112.2 QB rating. I could be completely wrong but in 2007, I seem to remember that coming into preseason, Pennington was the named the de facto starter and since there was no open competition, I think Chad only attempted 15-20 passes all preseason that year. If that was in fact the case, any comparison between the two might be considered less relevant really than what Clemens did last year vs. Ratliff when he was supposed to be competing with Chad for the starting job prior to the arrival of Favre. Then again, Clemens may have been told that he was a lock for the back-up job and felt he had nothing really to prove. It is my (possibly misinformed) understanding that had we not traded for Favre, Chad was outplaying Clemens in the practices/scrimmages leading up the preseason games. Again, I wasn't trying to draw any conclusions in my post(s) above which offered nothing more than stat fodder to chew on (and spit out).
Just remeber what an open competition for QB means. It means we don't have a starting caliber QB going into the season. Preseason stats unless they come in the first quarter agianst starters are usually pretty meaningless. Even 1st quarter stats don't mean much. Weather or not Pennington was outplaying Clemens or not is really subject to a lot of opinion. Training camp is training camp and preseason is preseason. Very hard to predict exactly what coaches are looking for in different situations. I was under the impression that Pennington did well early and Clemens was coming on before they got Favre. Obviously after they got Favre Clemens wasn't playing for anything and Ratliff was playing for a roster spot.
Actually, to me at least, an open competition means we don't have an obvious clear cut starting caliber QB as opposed to not having a starting caliber QB. If no moves are made by the time camp opens, then it is reasonably safe to assume that Ryan believes and is comfortable that both Clemens are Ratliff are starting caliber QBs. Therefore, the preseason performance evaluation criteria that frequently really is pretty meaningless more often than not be will in fact most likely be the determining factor over which one of the two is named the starter. And from what I hear from my wholly unreliable and disreputable sources, a fair number within management are hoping that Ratliff will win the job by virtue of what they perceive to be his more intriguing measurables, intangibles and upside.
I'm going to suggest that if they believe in Ratliff he should get all the starting snaps in mini and TC. To split the work will only set him back. Personally this is the reason Clemens should get the job and have to play himself out of it.
I don't think they really know what to believe. Your point certainly makes good sense but since I don't imagine they want to predicate any decisions on the basis of hopes and expectations as to which one is better and more ready. I'm assuming that they will go forward with an open competition through Mini and TC and into preseason ball just as they were intending on doing with Chad and Kellen last year prior to the Favre deal.
I agree regarding Clemens' passes being wobbly. That was one complaint I had back in the 2007 season. They were very wobbly at times which is probably where all the talk comes from about his passes being less catchable than Ratty's. We had several games to see that Clemens doesn't throw a tight spiral, but only a couple of games to see Ratty's passes so I'm willing to see if Kellen has improved on his throws before anointing Brett the next QB.
useless thread can we make a poll on ball positioning touch accuracy pocket awareness mobility the ability to read defenses pre snap release and knowledge of the playbook knowing recievers tendencies when cutting routes short in various coverage by the original posters rationale I say we bring in Kyle Boller, that guy can throw it through the field goal posts at the 50 yard line. AWESOME!
I can't believe this board has degenerated to the point where we have a four page thread about who has a stronger arm, implying that should be the determining factor in who plays quarterback for us next season. I think it's obvious that it is Clemens job to lose, despite what they've said. Anyone in their right mind would be more inclined to give the job to a guy with eight career starts over a guy with zero career starts. Ratliff is going to have to be overwhelming in the pre-season to win the job. -X-
^ ^^ ^^^ I think you guys are getting carried away here. There's nothing wrong with asking the question who has the stronger arm. Asking the question does not imply that's the only important attribute of a good qb. It's a valid question.
