Agreed Altoona, agreed. One of the reasons BB went out and got Welker was because BB said that welker was a "patriot killer". That his linebackers just couldn't cover him in the slot, and that he was a consistent receiver. He was a perfect candidate for the Patriot offensive system and scheme, so BB was willing to go out and take a risk on a guy that put up production against BB's defense.
So you don't believe in potential then? By this argument, you conclude that worth and potential have no correlation. For example, you would rather have a low productive Miles, or any of those players already in the NFL than have Micheal Crabtree who has the potential to be a great impact wide receiver in the NFL? I feel that by your arguments, you demonize the concept and point of the NFL draft. I agree with Mr. E and Syracuse Jets points of view, although my take is slightly different. There arguments however, are still sound and make conceptual sense. To me, your arguments make no sense, and you just repeat other posters but take their posts out of context. Like I've said before, by your theory, we should just trade away all of our picks so we get guys that have already have little or some production, because at least they have performed on the NFL level.
You seem to take much enjoyment nit picking my opinion. Whatever sharpens your pencil dude. I don't think i take other posters points out of context and make them my own. These are MY opinions of which i am entitled to. A lot of posters screaming for a QB say we "need to draft one", which i don't agree with. Drafting a QB doesn't necessarily help you with the "need". Not every QB drafted turns out to be Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. Most of these guys coming out of college need time to develop. Some positions have a longer learning curve then others. Wr is one of those. Most seem to think we need a WR NOW, not one we have time to develop. Drafting one would be ok if we had veterans we will be looking to replace in a few seasons. This will not satisfy the need NOW. I propose if we feel our offense is a WR away from being explosive or even very good for that matter, chances are we will not address this with a draft pick. I think it would be better to grab a guy in FA who knows the NFL game and has shown his worth or potential at THAT level. Austin has been in the league only 3 or so seasons. What are you basing your opinion of labeling him "unproductive" on? He was on a team with an all pro WR an all pro TE and not a focal point of their offense. Like i said before it takes time for a WR to develop. At least 2 or 3 years. Again i state this is MY opinion. Others who disagree are not right or wrong in their argument. They just have THEIR opinions. Maybe you should stop looking at what i say with your fine tooth comb and post something original of your own. Rest assured when you do i'll give you a nice thumbs up so you can feel like you've accomplished something. Happy Easter, if it applies.
Well said evojoe67 everyone is entitled to their opinions - after all this is a free country despite what some would say.
After blowing second round picks on McCraphands and Nugent I would like to see us keep the pick and actually use it to imporve the team.
A guy with 16 catches in the NFL is not worth a second round pick unless he played on a team full of great WR's. If he couldn't get on the field because other guys were great that's one thing, but if he couldn't get on the field for other reasons then he's not worth the second most valuable commodity that a team has to add new talent each year. The way the Jets have spent 2nd round picks over the last 8 years is directly related to their inability to become a topflight team. They treat those picks like they're some kind of freebie value to be bundled or traded away or used in inexcusable ways when actually exercised and as a result they've actually drafted very little talent in the 2nd round. 2008 - No pick, traded for Brett Favre. 2007 - One pick traded to move up for Darrelle Revis, traded up in 2nd to get David Harris. 2006 - Moved around in the round to pick up Thomas Jones and then selected Kellen Clemens. 2005 - Selected Mike Nugent, added a pick in the 1st round trade down to take Justin Miller 2004 - No pick, traded for Justin McCareins. 2003 - Took Victor Hobson 2002 - Took John McGraw 2001 - Took Lamont Jordan. The only players left on the team from 8 years of 2nd round picks actually exercised are David Harris and Kellen Clemens. Further value was spent to get Darrelle Revis and David Harris. You can't do this with an NFL team and be anything other than a consistent also-ran, which is where the Jets are at the moment. The Jets haven't actually just used their 2nd round pick to take the BPA in five seasons now. Their cumulative record over the 5 seasons is 37-43. I would say the two facts are related. BTW, I'm responding in support of your post, to amplify the strong message at the core of it.
^ I believe our 2008 second rounder was given to Green Bay in the trade up for Keller. I agree with your overall post though.
The fact that you two are still dwelling over this is awesome. I bet you both punch your screens when people don't agree with you...
yeah i actually had to buy 3 new computer screens over our last convo. i just get so worked up over you making stupid arguments.
I think the guy has the height ... Has the speed and gets seperation and after the catch gets YAC and we are looking for a receiver in the draft to so why not give up a 2nd rounder then in the first we could look at either QB RB DL so that would be one problem solved...
I'm worried Miles was only good because of the other weapons at WR the cowgirls had. A little less worried about Chad because he proved he can go. Bags he bring is a bit scary. A prospect is just that. This years crop is a little less worrisome.
You know I might be out of the loop or something. But there is no chance in the bluest of hells, that Miles Austin is worth a 2nd rd pick at this point in his career. Based on what he's done in the NFL. He has 18 career receptions :rofl2: Why are we even considering this?!?!?! Because Jerry Jones likes him? Now I'm busy watching baseball, and am lazy to dig through threads.... so will someone explain to me why anyone is even considering a 2nd rounder for Miles fucking Austin. There aren't two April fool's days are there? As for Ocho Cinco, I'd give a 3rd for him because he's shown he can play in the NFL; but he is on the decline, has an ego, and has done jackshit the last two seasons. 3rd rounder AT MOST. In summary, we should draft a WR rd 1 or 2.
Ocho Cinco is on the back half of his career and declining and U think TO's attitude is bad this guy is worse in my opinion and could tear a team apart.....
Bullshit. He's not uncoverable. They use him well. They do so by throwing out the conventional rules. If we had thrown 150 balls to Chrebet when he was here, or to Stuckey now, either one of the two would catch 100 for a 10 yard average. You put a guy on Welker at the line and hit him good (a safety not a CB...) and you can shut him out. Thats why guys like Jabar Gaffney wind up killing us. Moss, we can handle....Welker...we can handle but the Pats bring in talented castoffs at the 3 and 4 deep holes.
Ok,Brain Surgeon.... What is Miles Austin....? A Draft pick with solid time as a professional football player that..btw....put up better combine numbers than any second round pick this year.... It's not a question of sexy..It's called hedging the bet.
its called paying for potential and not proven ability. if the tender was a conditional for next year instead of a 2nd rounder I'd have a no problem signing this kid... but 2nd rounders don't go to guys with potential.
Yes, they do, Unproven in the NFL potential.(In common parlance we call those College Players...) This guy is proven. 3 years. 3 Training camps tells you HE WORKS AT IT. Oh, and btw... where did he learn his football...Garfield High in NJ. Can you tell me anything about the last player we had from that school?
A couple of weird analogies. Is a house worth X amount of Dollars? If a home buyer feels the home is worth the X amount the house is worth X amount. Is a gallon of milk worth X amount of Dollars? To most people milk is a need, and worth X amount of Dollars. My point is that only the parties involved can put a value on the transaction. For discussion purposes, The first scenario had better value for the Cheifs than it did for the patriots. The Chiefs received 2 caliber players for the price of 1, or a buy one get one type of thing. Is Miles Austin worth it? I don't think so! He has shown flashes, and after the season I wondered what the price would have to be for him. However, I believe there are OTHER unproven players that will be as good as him in the 3rd round. That would lead me to believe that it is a bad deal for the Jets good for Dallas. Is Chad Johnson worth it? absolutely! Do I want him? absolutely NOT! He is a proven player that will make plays that we won't be able to get immediately from a rookie. (Most likely) He will be a distraction that this team doesn't need. I would value this deal as the most even of your first 3 scenario's. Your last scenario won't show true value for a minimum of 2 years, IMO. Unless we were able to get an immediat impact player like Eddie Royal was last year, and that would swing the value to great. The flip side is we pick a player that won't play a down for us. That would equal a total lost, and have no value. The usual is we will pick a player that meets the perceived value of a 2nd round pick, and becomes a starter in a couple of years while showing flashes in the mean time. EDIT: All of the discussion before is based on what I saw as the value, but I was not involved in the transaction. There will be other that feel differently, thus proving my point.
Well thats not exactly true. There are guys in the third and 4th rounds that post much better combine numbers then him. If you claim he posted better numbers than 2nd round receivers this year, why did he go undrafted? Miles highest projection in the 2006 draft was in the late 4th round despite his combine. His combine was surprising for a division 1-AA athlete, but scouts said that the best case scenerio for Austin was the 4th round
