Yes you are, Vinny was not the same post injury as he was pre injury. The majority of the credit went to henning. Who are all these great QBs Weis has helped make? You have 2 underachieving QBs at ND and one good year from Cassel against a weak sched. If your flawed theory was correct Brady wuldn't have been as great as he has been since he left. "Everyone knows":rofl: How come they didn't win the Super Bowl then? That emotion only carries you so far, it usually helps for a game not a long run like they went through. Again, they went on a similar run 2 years earlier and amazingly no one was killed to do it. Just like KC 2010 We will never know. What's interesting is how you throw out what they scored during the reg season and how liitle they scored in their playoff loss. Let's compare shall we? Manning in losing years in postseason: 1999- averaged 26 in reg season, led O to 16 in postseason loss. -10 2000- 27 in reg, 17 in post. -10 2002- 22 in reg, ZERO in post. -22 2003- 28 in reg, 14 in post loss. -14 2004- 33 in reg, 3 in post loss. -30 2005- 27 in reg, 18 in post. -9 2007- 28 reg, 24 post. -4 2008- 24 reg, 17 post. -7 2009- 26 reg, 17 post. -9 2010- 27 reg, 16 post. -11 In total: -126, on average: -13 Brady: 2005: 24 in reg, 13 in post. -9 2006: 24 in reg, 27 in post. +3 2007: 36 in reg, 14 in post. -22 2009: 27 in reg, 14 in post. -13 2010: 32 in reg, 21 in post. -11 Total: -52, average: -10 Which is better? Why the lack of postseasons and postseason wins w/o Brady? Hmmmmm
No I’m not. Vinny was not the same post injury as he was pre injury?! Vinny was the same pre injury as he was post injury. The difference was the one year pre injury where he had Weis and Parcells. 1988 – 1997 (not counting his rookie season) his averages were 223 / 401 2814 Yds 17 TD 18 INT 1998 his season was 259 / 421 3256 Yds 29 TD 7 INT 2000-2001 his averages were 260 / 441 3242 Yds 18 TD 20 INT Which one is the anomaly? I’ll answer that for you. The anomaly was 1998 w/ Weis and Parcells. What did Weis do next? He turned a 6th round QB into an efficientn, productive QB who made few mistakes (see Vinny 1998). Then turned TWO college QBs into Pro ready QBs. And then went back to the pros and turned a mediocre QB into an efficient, productive QB who made few mistakes. I liked Henning but he is not given credit for Vinny. My theory is correct. Weis has built a strong QB friendly system that has produced success everywhere it’s been used. Their 2007 run was built off the emotion of Taylor’s death. Not every year is the same and the 2007 Redskins were a mediocre team that got on a roll after Taylor’s death. The Chiefs got beat badly by the same team the destroyed Brady and the Pats in the playoffs the year before. We would NOT have won in Indy last year. I am so happy they took out Manning because it allowed us to have that great postseason run. I just LOVE how there were a few Manning seasons where you only included the games they lost. That’s fantastic. The ACTUAL numbers show something a little different. 2003 – 28 in reg., 31 in post +3 2004 – 33 in reg., 26 in post -7 Total -86 average -8.6 Now which is better? If Brady is so great w/o Weis, then why have his post season numbers gotten worse and losses piled up? Brady still has ZERO SB titles w/o Weis and a top rated defense.
So you are going to include Vinny's #s from the late 80s-early 90s when he was dreadful? Vinny was a different QB when he left TB. Vinny became a full time starter in Cle in 1994. 1994-1997 averages: 261-447, 3152 yds, 21 TDs, 16 INTs In 1996 his comp % was almost the same as '98 and he threw 4 more TDs. Were BP & Weis coaching the Ravens in 1996? By the way, I like how you average 2000 and 2001 which is skewed b/c of his terrible 2000. That 6th rd pick obviously had all-time great ability, the best thing they did was get him stronger and into shape. The 2 college QBs he did not prepare well for the NFL, Quinn stinks and Clausen showed nothing and both were highly touted QBs coming out of HS. How did that work out for Cassel against good teams this year? Charlie really helped him against Baltimore. Isn't it amazing how w? all this succes for weis the only place he has won is w/ Tom Brady? Again, emotion only takes you so far like the Jets in '92 after Dennis Byrd got hurt, they upset Buffalo in Buffalo then didn't win another game. Washington had a decent team in 2007, a playoff worthy team w/ a HOF HC. Great, does Cassel have 3 SB rings as a starter?? do the Chiefs have 3 SBs to look back on? or was this one of the biggest games in Chiefs history? We will never know, i'm glad we played SD in the playoffs b/c if we played them in week 17 and they pulled Rivers midway through the 3rd you'd say there was no way we could win. Actually I included all the seasons each QB lost in postseason and the difference in what they led their O's to and what they averaged during the season. I don't care about averages, it's about what they did in their final game- the game they lost. So now you will add Manning's playoff wins but not Brady's? You are so over your head in these QB discussions that it isn't even fun anymore. He led a team to 16-0 and a SB app w/o Weis, what has Weis ever done w/o Brady? NE would have zero SB titles if it wasn't for Brady.
Despite having slightly better numbers from 1994 – 1997 than from 1988 – 1993 they still don’t match up to his 1998 numbers. And the season he threw 33 TDs he also threw NINETEEN INTs which was 12 more than he threw in 1998. Which is better 33/19 or 29/7? Why don’t you keep trying to cherry pick what you like and you don’t just to TRY to make your argument. Yeah, he was terrible in 2000 and his 2001 season wasn’t much better. All after Weis. W/ Weis 29 TDs 7 INTs w/o Weis 18 TDs 20 INTs And put him into a VERY friendly QB system that has brought success to other QBs. They were prepared well for the NFL. It takes a lot to make the next step up. Quinn did not have good coaching while in Cleveland and Clausen was just in his first year. Brady did so well last year against them right?! The only time Brady has ever won was with Weis and a top rated defense. The Redskins won 4 games following Taylor’s death and were emotionally charged because of it. The 1992 Jets have no bearing on the 2007 Redskins. Cassel is a mediocre QB who had great success in this system. We weren’t winning in Indy if they kept Peyton in the game and we didn’t in the AFCCG. Who cares about what he did in the Regular season. He still has ZERO championship w/o Weis and has played below average since Weis left in the postseason.
If he had multiple years w/ Weis I may buy it but he had one great stat year in '96 too- was Charlie responsible for that as well? I'm sure Charlie helped him as did BP and Henning but to credit Charlie who has no success outside of Brady is a little silly. A QB friendly system where the only guy to win in it is Tom Brady. They were prepared well which was why theyr dropped so far on draft day and have really impressed so far in the NFL. Quinn had coaching from the Belichick/Weis tree and that "QB friendly system" in 2009 w/ daboll. he moved to Denver where he was w/ McDaniels, why hasn't he shown anything? Brady has earned the right to never have another good postseason game. The Pats are in the same post dynasty stage the Yanks were in much of the 00s. Cassel and KC haven't earned that right. the only time those supposed top rated Ds won was b/c of Brady and the only time Weis won was b/c of Brady. I love the excuses, you have been following this game long enough to know coaching only takes you so far. How come the bengals didn't win more after Chris Henry died? Great success until the most meaningful game of the season. We'll never know. How many championships does Weis have w/o Brady/ How many does BB have w/o Brady? How many do those "great" NE D's have w/o Brady? By the way, if it's "who cares" about the reg season then how is Brady vs. Manning even a debate since all of the ammo for Manning comes from the reg season?
He has had success w/ other QBs. TEAMS win championships not single players. Cassel is a mediocre QB who has had success in that system twice. Including a great year this year w/ awful talent around him. They both had success under Weis. That is undisputable. Quinn played under Daboll for ONE season and had some success there. He was behind Orton and Tebow. Both Orton and Tebow had success in the system despite playing w/ sub par talent. All of his success was with Weis and he hasn't had much since Weis left. Cassel got beat by the same defense that destroyed Brady the year before. Brady hasn't won w/o a Top Rated defense. What excuses? Its is very well known that the Redskins played with emotion and that guided them through the remainder of the season. Who cares how other teams responded or did not respond in similar situations. Against a defense that destroyed Brady last year. We weren't winning that game. Brady's level of play in the postseason has dropped CONSIDERABLY w/o Weis. He was 9-0 w/ Weis and 5-5 w/o Weis. They've brought in top tier talent and he has not won a championship. So what is your argument then? You say Manning's regular season doesn't matter but then bring up Brady's 2007. I'm trying to keep up w/ your arguments. Either it matters or it doesn't. Which is it?
If he had multiple years w/ Weis I may buy it but he had one great stat year in '96 too- was Charlie responsible for that as well? I'm sure Charlie helped him as did BP and Henning but to credit Charlie who has no success outside of Brady is a little silly. A QB friendly system where the only guy to win in it is Tom Brady. They were prepared well which was why theyr dropped so far on draft day and have really impressed so far in the NFL. Quinn had coaching from the Belichick/Weis tree and that "QB friendly system" in 2009 w/ daboll. he moved to Denver where he was w/ McDaniels, why hasn't he shown anything? Brady has earned the right to never have another good postseason game. The Pats are in the same post dynasty stage the Yanks were in much of the 00s. Cassel and KC haven't earned that right. the only time those supposed top rated Ds won was b/c of Brady and the only time Weis won was b/c of Brady. I love the excuses, you have been following this game long enough to know coaching only takes you so far. How come the bengals didn't win more after Chris Henry died? Great success until the most meaningful game of the season. We'll never know. How many championships does Weis have w/o Brady/ How many does BB have w/o Brady? How many do those "great" NE D's have w/o Brady? By the way, if it's "who cares" about the reg season then how is Brady vs. Manning even a debate since all of the ammo for Manning comes from the reg season?
