what does this have to do with the original question of whether its the players or Rex going forward? Ill answer for you, nothing.
To maximise the performance of the players available to him and by extension the team. I think he's made mistakes and shown signs of learning from them. I'd rather not wait for the next guy to learn the same lessons. Overall I'd say he's done a creditable job and does not deserve to be fired.
This exactly. If Rex was allowed to make picks himself with no input from anyone else, then that's on the GM for allowing it to happen. It doesn't constantly happen. We're only on our 2nd QB since Rex arrived. 2009 was a bad year for QBs, and we didn't realize it. I just don't see where the blame ends up on Rex for the roster. He's not a talent scout, especially when it comes to the offensive side of the ball. On any other team in the league, the GM is responsible for the talent and the coach is responsible for utilizing that talent. Only on the Jets do people blame the head coach for the talent and salary cap situation that limited it. I'm not saying Rex has no input, but suggest he makes all decision in regards to what QB we draft is silly. That's like blaming Sean Payton for the lack of defensive playmakers on the saints.
Got out of school early today, eh? Read the title of the thread and then read my response again. I guess reading comprehension isn't really your thing. The question posed is about whether Rex has made the defense better or it was the "defensive" drafts. I posted evidence that the drafts weren't all defense early. If you don't understand that very basic point, then there's a heck of a lot more you won't understand if this conversation goes further, so lets just end this now and save us both the wasted time and effort.
Jets, Jets Coaches get too much blame for losing and too much credit for winning. Since we and the sports media don't see the films we don't really know much except the final score. Rex can coach defense but so can many others. This idea that he has some secret knowledge is silly. There are many good coaches out there. Good players are hard to find.
We have a good defense because of all of the talent put into it. Like you said, the playcalling hasnt been all that groundbreaking and extraordinary in the last 3 years. I think the defense has relied more on its talent than playcalling to make up for it. Now does Rex get credit for all of the picks working out? Of course. But Ive said this a thousand times recently- the slight advantage that Rex gives us on the defense isnt worth the total garbage product on the other side. I personally dont get the argument that if Rex leaves that this defense will turn to shit. Talent is talent, and we have a top 5 talented front 7, and that does not have anything to do with who the coach is.
Rex is a great defensive mind. But it's not all him. You need the players to have a good D. Just like great offensive minds need players to do what they want to do on the other side of the ball. So to say it's all Rex and act like he doesn't have some great talent on that defense isn't being fair. I'll give him all the credit in the world though for his schemes, being able to identify and help bring that talent that was drafted and signed along the right way. But all coaches need players. If you gave Rex a bunch of CFL players instead of NFL starting caliber player his defense wouldn't be nearly as good.
It's both really, Rex has adjusted his defense constantly to fit the needs of the team since getting here. There's been a lot of turnover in players and a lot of players dropping off quickly year to year. I think if we go away from Rex, we will see the defense perform not as well next year unless we keep Thurman and the rest of the defensive crew. We also have to remember in 2009 and 2010 the Jets lost Kris Jenkins on D and had a banged up Revis for part of 2010 and almost no Revis in 2012. We lost our best defensive players those years. Rex has adjusted the D to try and fit the players he has, but you can also tell he still sticks to bringing the house for better or worse on 3rd downs and in other scenarios. The talent of the DL has allowed him to get away with less blitzing where as in the past the talent of the secondary allowed him to get away with more blitzing. The defense has adjusted to the talent it has had, if that makes sense. So, both :grin:
If anything, Rex's playcalling has hurt the team more then it has helped the past few years with the over aggressive blitz's that never get to the QB and leave CBs 1 on 1 and they often get burnt or draw a PI penalty. Rex's playcalling and blitz's dont fool anyone anymore. I cant remember a time in recent memory where a blitz of his has actually fooled an O line and reached the Qb. Rex is very overrated and living off of his success from his first 2 years still. This defense has plenty of pieces and will be just fine when Rex gets fired here soon. The front 7 just isnt going to forget how to play football all of a sudden just because he is no longer there. Rexists are just like the Sanchez fan boys and will blame everything on anyone but him. Its sad....
This would be accurate except Rex has become less blitz heavy since joining the Jets. I can't find anything for this year, but for the previous 4 years under Rex the Jets were 1st 3rd 12th 11th. in blitz % So he has adjusted, I would be interested to see this year. You can't just say leaving corners on a island is bad but then ignore the times we don't blitz, the pressure doesn't get there, and there's an open receiver or the QB scrambles. It's a balancing act and at least the first 4 years Rex has toned it down in comparison to the rest of the league. It would be interesting to see this year though. There were times the Jets were burnt over the top this year where the safety got beat in addition to the corner, or just the corner got beat. I have a feeling he's shifted to more safety help this year but I can't find any blitz % stats for 2013.
Rex Ryan. If we didnt trade Revis and used our first rounder on Sheldon this year might have been the best defense we have ever had.
Thats still a pretty high % though. You can get away with it when you have Cromartie playing on top of his game like the last 2 years and Revis but it seems like he hasnt learned from it much and still leaves players hanging out to dry (ie Milliner on numerous occasions). With having a top 5 DL, the need for as many blitzes shouldnt be quite as high. Im interested in seeing the numbers for his year. I doubt its as high as the first 2 years but i could definitely see middle of the pack numbers. Maybe its just me but it just seems like no one the blitzs even get the QBs like they used to. Some can be chalked up to scheme and it seems like other teams practice and know where the blitz always come from and others, are just veteran QB play who always gets the ball out very fast in most cases (Brady).
Rex calls plays like we have Revis in the secondary which worked well when we actually had Revis and Cro played like Revis in 2012. But with a poor secondary the secondary got exposed this year. Rex tried to dial it back a little and play more 7 man in the box later in this season. I agree on the Revis part. If we had a healthy Revis and this DL it would be his best defense ever. If Rex gets fired and goes to Tampa with a healthy Revis in 2014 he could relive the 2009-2010 Jets defensive glory days. A little bit of offense from martin, Glennon and Jackson mixed with some Rex defense and Tampa could be an immediate SB contender while we compete for the top draft pick. Could you imagine Woody's face watching Rex and Revis waving the SB trophy all over the back sport pages.
It's not non-sense actually. It's not impossible for a DC to come in here and get significant results from this defense but the odds are not good for that outcome to establish itself though. Rex has been molding this defense around his vision, his scheme, his detailed planned vision and players that fit into all of those things. Another DC is going to bring their scheme, regardless of the players that are on this roster, their scheme will be instilled. Do you honestly think that even half of the players that are on that side of the ball are going to fit perfectly into that new DC scheme and vision? Doubtful. Then you factor in that our defense is very young and inexperienced already, now you have to install and learn a whole new scheme, unlike now where the scheme is consistent which is an advantage because it doesn't take much time away from the players. No transition necessary, they can just get right down to football without taking steps backwards because they already know what to expect and do on the field. There are a lot of Cons involved if this defense has to go through another scheme change and plan. That's a fact. The odds of Idzik finding someone that fits perfectly for that side of the ball isn't very good, it's hard to find quality coaches anyway, let alone find someone that will get the very most out of every single player from a previous coaching staff. It just wont happen and it would likely take a couple offseasons to really gel properly.
Your post mind fucked me. I'm having a hard time functioning properly after reading this. AmahZing. You have got to be kidding me. Seriously. You are out of your mind if you think that Rex Ryan and this coaching staff are not the reasons for this team always having a strong defense. So Rex Ryan took a previous coaching staffs defense and made that defense a literal nightmare for opposing offenses. It was such a fast transformation that teams were surprised just how physical and hard it was to play against our defense. It is the same guy, the same guy that has had a strong defense with this team the past 5 years, he is the only true consistent piece on that side of the ball. Players have came and gone, we've gotten stronger and weaker at different positions, defensive coaching staff has consistently changed throughout the process. Yet we still have the same result every single year. That isn't coincidence and it's not because of the talent on defense, players can't just make a defense good all by their lonesome, that is just stupid. Wilkerson, our best player on the team period, was nowhere near what he is now the first two years he was in the league. The coaching staff has turned him into the beast that he is, they have put him in positions to consistently succeed. These players are only as good as they are because they were given proper coaching, sure they have great talent but talent alone doesn't make you great. Coaching does. How does talent alone make up for play calling? How the fuck does that work? They all just freelance on the field at times because they know with so much talent, they can just do what they want and succeed? Honestly.. How does that work? Final thought... Our TOP 5 Front, just happened all by itself then? According to you the coaches had nothing to do with that, right? Explain to me then why these talented men haven't been a top 5 front until Sheldon Richardson entered the picture? Was he the missing link? The rookie DT/DE? Was that the magical pill that transformed it all? Wilkerson, Coples, Harrison, Ellis were all on this team last year and were one of the worst run defenders in all of football, the pressure on the QB wasn't anything close to the way it was this year. Why didn't we see this last year from these guys? Probably because they were young, it takes time to develop under coaching and experience. It doesn't just happen because of the God given talent you were given. There is a reason that Rex Ryan has always had a good defense, because he's a damn good coach who knows how to develop players with talent. It's never been the other way around. There is no way in hell you could ever convince me that after all these years of Rex Ryan having a top tier defense, that it was all because of the talent that he has had. The talent hasn't made Rex Ryan, Rex Ryan makes the talent and puts his talent in positions of success. Your statements reek of nothing but Rex Ryan hate, you want him gone and you are willing to say anything to make some kind of point against the guy. I get it, cool.. At least have some valid points though. Some of the things you posted are just off the wall, very laughable, but think it through a little. Ya know?
as is almost always the case its a little bit of both. i give rex credit that he was always willing to go zero coverage to get pressure on the qb. especially when the team didnt have guys who could get there. however thats something you are afforded the luxury of doing when you have revis in the defensive backfield. its also in part that they have spent all of the FIRST PICKS, the guys who are most likely to succeed on defense, and the big ones on d linemen. then filled actual needs in rounds 2 and 3 with what were jeez i hope this guy works out picks. the real problem is that while the d line is great, we run alot of 3-4 and thats the part of the team you really dont need great guys at. especially at the de position. you need to have a monster nt (which the jets dont) and big big athletic olbs, which the jets also dont have. so while the defense is good, surely not great at this point. it just doesnt seem to be put together the way i would want it to be. we can pretty much say that kyle wilson is what he is, i dont see him improving drastically at this point. half a milli does have the possibility of improvement but will he be good enough soon enough before we have to replace the guy on the other side with another first round pick? wilkerson is great and will hopefully continue to be great and or get better. although he flashed ALOT more earlier in the year than he has recently. coples is decent but he isnt making hte all pro team anytime in the near future. davis, great against the run, still cant cover anyone with agility. want to show me something? show me the 4th round picks that he has made into stars, that he has gotten far more out of than anyone thought they had. i dont see any of them. i do see first round talents that are from very good to disappointing.
Since you have to score one more point than the other guy, if Rex's leaving brings in a new era on the Offense and Special Teams, then I make that trade for the long term good of the team.
Seriously? It's just "bad luck" that none of the offensive players panned out, but almost all or all of the defensive players did? Get real. Yes, luck is part of the quotient, but much more important is skill in being able to recognize and develop offensive talent. Either the Jets scouting dept. and GM have been greatly deficient in recognizing that talent, the Jets HC and CS have been greatly deficient in developing that talent, the offensive "talent" taken was "left overs" after using their prime choices on the D, or all of the above. I believe that Rex, either directly or indirectly, is a big part of this epic failure with the offensive picks. Change must be made.
