What changes if any will be made?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NYJ1970, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    He can't can he? As he was already on IR when they ended camp I think that means he cannot be activated at all this season. Not that I think he would be ready anyway.
     
  2. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Well, none of us plan offenses for NFL teams for a living either. Compared to us, LeFleur is an Einstein. Compared to his peers? The stats and the record tell the tale. Now since you feel this CS is the best thing ever to have happened to the Jets, lets just sit back and only focus on the good things and pretend this team is really 5-1, not 1-5.

    At some point, you're gonna have to stop playing the RRR card and judge this CS on the results in 2021, not 2023 or some other future year. Since 5 games isn't enough for you, how about 16 games? 32? 64? 128? Give us a number assuming you have one.
     
    #42 Cman68, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  3. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Stop playing the RRR card we are five games in. This is the NFL it is a big jump to NFL. How does five games translate to 128? I never said there was not room for Monday morning GM,QB,OC whatever. Demanding a 5-1 team coming off of a 2-14 season with a new coaching staff and RRR 5 games is not even close to enough. I give these guys next season to be .500 type team. I am hoping they put together sooner and we a have a very strong second half.

    Until then I understand there will mistakes made. From bad blocking to bad passes to dropped passes to missed coverages, to bad play calling etc. These are all learning moments. Did you really expect this team to be 5-1?
     
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  4. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    high hopes, but based on what? not trying to be argumentative here…just trying to see if there is any evidence of him playing well?

    I can’t remember seeing him on the field at all? Maybe a few snaps in preseason? Hard to expect anything from him at this point…
     
  5. Pepsiguy5

    Pepsiguy5 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone really expected to be 5-1 and most everyone expected some growing pains.

    But I also feel like its a bit sobering and alarming both the scope and magnitude of the struggles. From dropped passes (from our "on paper" promising wr corps) to lollipop interception throws by our top pick QB to what appear to be rough decisions and game plans by our all gas no brake coaching staff pretty much nothing is looking too good at the moment.

    Could it all change on a dime this weekend? I guess so but at this point I think I'm going to actually need to see it to really believe it. And I think that is more or less what Cman is saying. There are a lot of messes here and we need to start seeing at least a few of them start to get cleaned up.... that would represent progress. And progress is what we all hope to actually see at some point.
     
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  6. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Not high hopes, just hopes. He was very good in college, playing LT and handling Clemson's DL. The fact that JD drafted him and counted on him to compete for the starting RG job gives me some hope. He worked with OL Coach Duke Manyweather along with Becton, so has received good coaching/preparation.

    You're correct that he hasn't seen the field due to injuries last year and this year. I don't expect anything, just hope that he will turn out to have been a good pick and not a wasted pick.
     
  7. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    You didn't answer the question... How many games until you're able to form an opinion of this CS? BTW, no one demanded a 5-1 team. Evidently you're willing to play the RRR card ad nauseum. Soooo...16 games? 32? 48? 64? How many?? Ok, I'll make this easier for you.. 112 games? That should be plenty of time.
     
    #47 Cman68, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  8. hornblower

    hornblower Well-Known Member

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    Really looking forward to Sunday's game. Win or lose they will compete. Not expecting a finished product but lots of improvement. If not maybe next week. For sure no despair and call for firing the GM and the staff Monday.
     
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  9. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    25 games. That's a season and a half's worth of games to show how they gameplan, adjust, make in game decisions, etc....
    The other tenant at Met Life has a second year HC(and OC and DC) who a decent portion of their fanbase doesn't believe is the answer in a season and a third. I hope we are not thinking that way next year.
     
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  10. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    For you it is 5 games. For me it is closer to 25 games.
     
  11. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    You sure about that? You sound like you'd prefer 45 games with all your rookie rookie rookie excuses handed out daily. The first 5 games proved they have no idea how to run a NFL football team successfully. The last 12 games is their chance to correct that. Especially LeFleur since they knew going into the season they had no veteran coaches or QB to help Zach and they did this by CHOICE. Forgive me, but they f'd up right there being shortsighted. Its gonna be a struggle to improve on 2-14 even with the extra game on the schedule. They may sneak up on a team that take the Jets for granted like the Rams did last year. Homers will be playing the rookie rookie rookie card in '22 and '23 if this CS stays the course. Thing is, that card is only good for this year.
     
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  12. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    That is a very extreme take. Next year the rookie starters will not be rookies so hard to use that excuse. I am sorry you are that you are jaded but I understand.

    I agree about the Vet QB I think that is hurting Zack, I understand you can plan for Knapp getting run over but they did not bring anyone else in. I think that slowed the growth of the offense. I think the biggest issue on offense has been mistakes. A crucial dropped pass , a missed block a missed throw. These all add up and are what young teams do.

    I am optimistic the team will look better. A young Qb needs a crutch receiver and Davis has just not been that. The line is looking better, Zach is not a turnover machine and the defense is looking decent. We will win a few more games. Give the process a chance we will have plenty of time to condemn this coaching staff. We are pretty good at it as a fan base.
     
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  13. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Read the the first lines of my Post..and stop cherry picking about how people decide to post about our CS "after 5 weeks " of this Season" ..Guess what ? On the Raider Forums there's plenty of critics and they are winning games

    Imo we have too much inexperience where a more seasoned OC could have been brought in...now if after 11 more games LaFleur has us scoring regularly then I am wrong

    The "idiotic negative posts" on here might turn into positive ones after a good game for Jets Sunday or if they are showing progress

    Where's the evidence that "none of this true" ? What game or games so far in a one win season convince how great the Team is?

    If the " collective thought is good" where are the wins? I guess they should be coming soon

    You need to get off your High Horse
     
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  14. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  15. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    Cman, not for nothing, but if you expect an entire rookie staff paired with the youngest team in the league to just start winning games every week after 5 games, then this conversation is absolutely useless.

    This team looked horrible in one game, Denver. They have been competetive in every other game. The problem has been the start, which is what they are trying to fix.

    Rookies and youth is not an excuse, it's a real thing. A rookie head coach paired with a rookie offensive coordinator running an offense through a rookie QB is going to struggle. That's a fact.

    It takes a staff and a roster a year to a year and a half before everything starts to fire. Why we are coming to conclusions after 5 games is ridiculous. Why we are coming to conclusions after one season, is ridiculous.

    If this is your outlook, then you mine as well be done with the franchise. Saleh and Wilson are not going anywhere no matter the result of the rest of this season. I hate to break it to ya
     
  16. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    If this CS thought they could go into this season without any veteran help, that was a terrible miscalculation on their part and they should be called on it. If JD thought he could go into this season without a veteran QB to mentor Zach, that too was a terrible mistake. Everybody realizes this is a young team and a CS without any experience. That isn't really the case with the CS as all of them just didn't drop out of the sky and land on the Jets. They all have resumes. They simply didn't know how to run a NFL team and had to learn on the job. Again, this really didn't have to happen this way as there were Vet QB options available and I'm sure they could have found a replacement for Knapp after that unfortunate accident. They chose not to do either for whatever reason and now the team is paying the price for their hubris. Cavanaugh is stealing his money.

    When you first start a job, no matter what the field is, you're expected to be able to perform that job competently by your employer. There is no way you could keep that job if you couldn't perform it.

    Nobody expected 5-1. Hell, nobody expected 3-3. We did expect some semblance of NFL calibre football and so far, we've only seen glimpses. 5 games is enough to know the last 12 games can't be as bad. Improvement has to be shown. At some point, the lightbulb has to come on. That goes for Saleh and his "rookie" staff. Since the roster is supposedly loaded with kids, someone has to step up and show them the way. The CS has to get this thing pointed in the right direction.

    Nobody is really gonna care if the Jets have rookies everywhere (which they don't BTW). One other thing this CS doesn't have is forever to get this team fixed and if that means taking a long hard look in the mirror, so be it.
     
    #56 Cman68, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
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  17. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    It not about a number of games as much as showing genuine future potential. It may not take 2 years to know if Zach is going to work out. In fact, we may know the answer by the end of this season. IF he is the same Zach in week 17 then he's probably not the answer for us. Same with LeFluer, and potentially Saleh. But the odds are there will be some improvement and a grey area that needs next season to determine if things are turning around.

    One thing is fore sure. We've not had any strong signs that there is a lot of future potential so far. There is not harm wondering when or if its going to happen. I guess we'll learn a lot more this Sunday.
     
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  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    There's been flashes of goodness... sustained competence is anther story.

    As usual... the fans expect too much... and the Jets deliver too little... :confused:
     
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  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, especially with the bold. Veteran QBs to mentor are overrated. Besides, aside from Tyrod Taylor, there wasn't a quality veteran QB available who could have mentored Zach, so why waste a roster spot and cap space paying some stiff, who really . The Jets had Knapp, who had a ton of experience, then he died. No one could have foreseen that. Once he died, they began looking for a replacement, but coaches like Knapp don't grow on trees. They asked around the NFL, and took their time trying to find the right person. I don't know how good Cavanaugh is or isn't, but Saleh said that everyone that they asked about Cavanaugh spoke highly about him, so they hired him. Time will tell how good or bad he is.

    Saleh and much of his stafff have coaching experience, but at a minimum Saleh has never been a HC before and LaFleur has never been an OC or called plays before. Some of the other coaches may not have coached the position groups they're coaching now before. As you said, they didn't know how to run an NFL team, either. That's the nature of things. Until you've actually done something, or been trained to do something, one doesn't know how to do that thing.
     
  20. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, how do you define a "turnover machine" if two fumbles and nine interceptions in five games does not qualify? Why would you even be the one to bring that up? How long should that be allowed to continue - three seasons? It's only five games so far, and you seem to be the only one constantly repeating the mantra of dumping the QB or the coaches after just five games; that's not coming from the guys who are unhappy with being at 1 - 4. What's up with that? Red herrings? Strawman arguments? Just deal with what's happening instead of trying to explain it away with excuses. I would guess that you're not really okay with eleven turnovers - who would be?

    Nobody should be calling for personnel changes after just five games but we don't need to put our heads in the sand and refuse to admit that there are things that are going lousy. We need to see improvement happening from the staff as well as the players, not just shrug off crap football as growing pains. Right now there's a whole lot more pain than growth but the staff just had an extra week to work on correcting that. Hopefully everyone is honest enough to admit it's needed now.
     
    #60 Ralebird, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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