His mechanics and footwork can definitely be fixed. The problem is that he will probably have to sit on the bench and be the #3 QB for that to happen. The problem with mechanics and footwork are that they are basic fundamentals. They need to be automatic. One can't be thinking about them while one is playing and trying to win a game. Sam will need focused work on them every day and not have to worry about learning the offense for that week's game. The only way I can see him avoiding having to sit while he fixes his footwork and mechanics are to work with a different QB coach than Jordan Palmer this offseason every day. For whatever reason, it's not working with Palmer. I don't know if the things he is teaching aren't right, if Sam hasn't worked at mastering them, or the communication isn't clear for some reason, but I believe if he is going to those things fixed by next TC, he needs to find a different/better coach. Having a more solid OL and better skill position players around him should help his decision making, but even then, he has to learn to not try to force things or play hero ball. Sometimes you have to throw the ball away and live for the next play or the next set of downs. Sometimes you have to accept what the defense is giving you rather than trying to force what you want to happen to happen. I think a big part of his decision making issues are his inability to see the whole field and his inability to read Ds. I'm uncertain how much the ability to see the whole field or his instincts can be improved, but think he should be able to learn to read Ds. I think he may need a lot of personalized attention from his QB Coach and/or OC to achieve that, and I'm not sure that the Jets' new OC and QB coach will have the time to do that. They will be in new positions, be teaching a new offense, and have a lot else on their plate. Then there's the psychological aspect of being here where he has suffered so much lousy coaching, lousy play calling, and has had so little talent around him. Will he be able to overcome and forget all that here, or does he need a change of scenery to overcome and forget all that? That's why I truly think that Sam needs to go elsewhere if he is to have any real chance of fulfilling his potential. It may already be too late for him, but if not, I think he has to go elsewhere. Being here, having to start with probably only minimal improvement on his flaws, and he probably will revert to old habit/form when in game situations.
There is nothing about the QB’s after Lawrence that makes me feel we can’t pass on them and a comparable QB won’t be available next year to take if Sam doesn’t get it together because If Sam is terrible, we are going to be drafting high again next year anyways and can get next year’s Fields or Wilson, who will get to step into a team with much more talent than a QB would this year. I’m okay with improving the team around Sam this year and giving him one more shot; worst case scenario is we have to draft a QB next year rated the same as any of the QB’s coming out now save for Lawrence.
OMG! You know I like and respect you as a poster, but when it comes to being a fair judge of Darnold, you're really biased. OL: Because there was no T.C. (with contact) or P.S. the OL never had a chance to gel until late in the season, maybe with 6 games left we began seeing consistent good play, and even then it wasn't like they were the "Five Blocks of Granite". WR: The first game he had that all 4 starting WRs were available and playing was I think against the Rams, it certainly was not earlier than 4 weeks ago. And he's had to play for a HC who finally admitted he never liked the Darnold pick, and has refused to adjust the offense to take advantage of Darnold's strengths, while continuing to ask him to do what he's weakest at! That you refuse to account for these factors is unfathomable to me. Meanwhile, I and a few others who have pushed back against this "Darnold is trash" meme, have consistently admitted that he hasn't shown that he was worth the #3 pick...yet. And most of us wouldn't cry or object to his being traded - for the right return. But you and the other "Sam Haters" just continue to beat the drum without acknowledging the impact of the obstacles he's had to deal with. SMH.
Can someone source me where gase said he didn't like Darnold? Not calling any one out about it. Just want to get angry at gase again Sent from my M2007J20CG using Tapatalk
Agree, Sam has issues that can be fixed, I can roll with him under the right circumstances and will. He just beat two other teams that had winning records and according to the posters here he still sucks.. As NC said his fundamentals can be fixed and I agree but I would add a good QB coach and HC would drill inot him to be consistent. Then I think we can win with him, if he still plays poorly then trade him of make him a back-up.
I like and respect you too, CC. I think Darnold is one of the only things we disagree on with this franchise. Appreciate the input as always!
It's totally understandable that you don't like any of the other QBs aside from Lawrence. I wouldn't be so sure about drafting high again next year (in 2022), however. If JD signs Thuney and Allen Robinson or Chris Godwin in FA, drafts an OG, a good CB, and a good RB, and we get the right HC, we could wind up 7-9 or 8-8 next year and be drafting in the teens even if Sam shows little or no improvement. Remember that we'll have an easier schedule next season as well. If there are only two good QBs in the draft next year and we're drafting outside of the top 10, we probably will have zero chance of getting a QB. Then what? The longer we wait to get a QB, the harder it will be to get the one we want and need. I don't understand this blase attitude that you and others have about getting a QB. You all make it seem like they grow on trees, when we all know that isn't the case. It's nowhere as simple as saying we can get next year's Wilson or Fields. Sam has proven that he isn't the answer and even with an improved team around him, if he doesn't have time to fix his fundamental flaws, the end result will be no better.
Sam didn't beat those two teams. If anything, it was our D that won those two games. Sam played solidly and didn't make any big mistakes, but it's not like he put the team on his shoulders and carried them to victory. His fundamentals can be fixed, but in all likelihood that means he would have to sit for at least half the season, if not the whole season to focus on correcting those flaws. If he is kept to start, in all likelihood, he will be no better next year than this year regardless of whom the HC is. What good would it do to keep him then?
I’m not blasé about QB’s, but I don’t think needing a QB means we should over draft Fields or Wilson just because they are the most highly rated QB’s left in this draft. Outside of Roethlesberger and the Manning’s, I think the Super Bowl winning QB’s over the last 20 years were drafted outside of the top 10, no? Obviously Brady skews that a little with his amazing run, but still... I simply don’t think we need to fear not getting a QB next year if we don’t draft one this year, because comparable QB’s will be available in the draft next year where we will likely draft.
I agree that we shouldn't panic and reach or overdraft a QB just to get one. I was just making the point that things may be no better next year, and it could very well be harder to get one because we'll be drafting lower. We could be looking at not getting a new young QB until '23 or '24.
Devil's Advocate: The offense could be built up and we could roll with a vet for a year or two before getting the FQB who can walk into an offense that's above average. The QB we draft in '23 or '24 could be via a trade up ala KC in '17. If we have a good team in place, trading up wouldn't hurt as much as it did in '18.
This. Otherwise, we're doing to the new kid exactly what we did to Darnold. Putting him in a position with no help where he will struggle and, in typical Jets fashion, we'll probably break him. If we were at #1, you'd take Lawrence, because he could rise above it in the way that Burrow has in Cincinnati. But, I can't see Fields or Wilson carrying a bad franchise on their shoulders like that. Use the picks, put together the beginnings of a great offense, and trade a mid-round pick to a team for a veteran QB who can at least help the new guys be competitive while Douglas builds the roster.
Im on the boat with taking Sewell and building an offensive line that makes excuses for Sam impossible. Best case scenario is that the line, along with coaching, makes drafting a QB moot. Otherwise I don’t think we will be so significantly better that a QB is out of reach for us next year.
I don't understand this. In no way would we be doing to the new kid exactly what we did to Darnold. To begin with Douglas will be making the hire of the new HC, so there won't be any stiffs like Todd Bowles or Adam Gase. Secondly, the new kid would have Mekhi Becton as his LT, at a minimum Crowder and Mims to throw to (and more than likely Douglas will add a WR in FA and maybe one in the draft as well), Herndon looks like he's bouncing back, and we could wind up adding Pat Freiermuth, the OL is better than it has been any time over the last 2-5 years and I'm certain that Douglas will add another couple of OL via FA and the draft. So how does that even vaguely resemble what we did to Sam? Fields or Wilson wouldn't have to carry the franchise. Even our D is not in as bad a shape as was thought. Our DL is very good vs the run and is able to generate pressure on opposing QBs. We'll have Mosley, and probably Hewitt at ILB, and we have one CB starter set with Hall.
How would it make drafting a QB moot? If we're not significantly better next season, then Douglas may not have hired the right HC, unless he has a steep learning curve. We should have an easier schedule next season, the OL will have had a year together, so should be improved even if Douglas makes no additions/upgrades to the OL, and we all know that he will. Our young players on the DL will have another year's experience. Remember that this was really Franklin-Myers' first season playing most of the snaps. He was with the Rams in 2018 and missed all of last season. Q. Williams should build off this season. If we get anything out of Zuniga next season, along with Basham, Luvu, and perhaps a rookie OLB, our pass rush should be better. Mims will have a year's experience in the NFL, and if we add a Godwin, Robinson, or Golladay, the receiving corps will be a lot better. We won't be starting the season with the likes of the scrubs we did this year. It would be very difficult for Herndon to be as bad as he was this year early. I'm predicting now that the Jets win at least 6 games next season, maybe 8.
If Sam plays at a high level with good coaching and talent around him we don’t need a QB, this it’ll be moot. I’m willing to find that out, in conjunction with adding a player like Sewell, over taking Fields or Wilson because there will undoubtedly be another Fields or Wilson available to the Jets if Sam doesn’t play well enough to keep the job. with 6-8 wins the Jets can get the same level of prospect available to them at 2 this year.
Here you go: From https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0190910-zxmkfq7a7fdgbcs5u4ncwoti6q-story.html Adam Gase was mesmerized by the young quarterback in front of him. He had fire, zip on his throws and an uncanny accuracy that made the then-Dolphins coach juiced by the possibilities. The private workout on March 21, 2018, left an indelible mark. The ball never hit the ground. This kid could be special. The coach had evaluated the top few quarterback prospects, but none of them made an impression on him like this guy. Gase was convinced: Baker Mayfield was the best quarterback in the 2018 draft class. t was the worst-kept secret in the Dolphins’ building. Gase believed that Mayfield, who rolls into town with the Browns for a Monday night showdown against the Jets, was clearly better than Sam Darnold, according to sources familiar with the situation. In fact, people in the know revealed that Gase had more of an affinity for Josh Allen than Darnold too. Although Gase has subsequently (and predictably) claimed after getting the Jets job that he didn’t really evaluate Darnold simply because there was little chance the former USC star would drop to the Dolphins with the No. 11 pick, that’s not actually true. So, what was Gase’s true motivation behind not investing the same amount of time in Darnold as Mayfield and Allen in the pre-draft process? Was it because he knew that Darnold was great and wouldn’t fall to No. 11, so why waste his time? (Miami never had any intention of trading up, by the way). Or was it because Gase wasn’t impressed by his initial evaluations of Darnold, so why waste his time? Sources told the Daily News that Gase wasn’t wowed by Darnold’s tape. Although he felt that the young quarterback was good in some areas, he didn’t think he was exceptional in any particular one. He didn’t believe that Darnold had star potential. He was no Mayfield, according to people familiar with Gase’s evaluations. Every decision maker in the Dolphins organization, including owner Stephen Ross, was fully aware that Gase wasn’t a fan of Darnold, according to sources. “He was lukewarm on (Darnold),” said one source. Although Darnold had highlight-reel moments by extending plays, Gase had concerns about the player’s ability to consistently win from inside the pocket, according to sources. So, he chose not invest any additional time in Darnold. [More Jets] City Champs! Jets are playing harder and better than the Giants right now » The way Gase saw it, he was busy enough trying to figure out how to improve a team coming off a six-win season. So, he saw enough of Darnold and moved on. The Dolphins didn’t schedule a private workout on campus with Darnold or bring him in for a visit, because Gase simply didn’t think he was as good as Mayfield and Allen. Those two signal callers grabbed Gase’s attention at the Senior Bowl. The coach was surprised at Mayfield’s velocity on his throws in person. He didn’t get a real sense of how much zip he had on his passes until he saw him up close. The strong-armed Allen grew on Gase during the evaluation process, according to sources. He really got on board the Allen train after the Wyoming quarterback made a private visit to the Dolphins facility. (He didn’t have a workout for the team though). Gase told people at the time that he didn’t like Josh Rosen’s makeup. Something about the UCLA quarterback’s personality rubbed Gase the wrong way, but he still had an odd fascination with him on draft day, according to sources. It’s unclear why given that Gase used colorful metaphors when describing Rosen in the building. [More Jets] The Jets couldn’t possibly bring back Adam Gase next year, right? » The Dolphins brain trust evidently disagreed with Gase’s assessment. They traded for Rosen this offseason. In all, Miami brought three quarterbacks in for private visits: Mayfield, Allen and Washington State’s Luke Falk. In many ways, Gase was a walking contradiction. In one breath, he told Ryan Tannehill, who missed the entire 2017 season with a torn ACL, that he was in his corner, according to sources. Three weeks after publicly declaring that Tannehill would be his 2018 starter, Gase was in Norman, Oklahoma, being dazzled by Mayfield during the private workout. The Dolphins believed that there was a real chance that the Heisman Trophy winner would be available at No. 11. The truth is that the Jets would have drafted Mayfield at No. 3 if the Browns took Darnold, according to sources. [More Jets] Jets beat depleted Browns to lock in No. 2 pick » But Miami didn’t know that at the time. So, they held out the possibility that Mayfield would be staring at them when they were on the clock. If he were, they’d have to think long and hard about taking him (or potentially trading down if they thought he’d slip even more). None of that happened. Mayfield was long gone … and Gase was left making excuses for an ineffective Tannehill last season. Gase has learned something over the past nine months too: That USC kid might be better than what he saw on tape. Gase’s pre-draft assessment of Darnold is more a reflection of his spotty evaluation than the player’s ability. Darnold has the skill-set to be a difference maker for a long time. There’s a reason why smart talent evaluators across the NFL viewed him as a Top 5 prospect even though Gase didn’t. Remember, Gase was giddy about Brock Osweiler when the Broncos took him in the second round of the 2013 draft. He might be a bright offensive mind, but that doesn’t mean he can always properly evaluate quarterbacks coming out of college. Gase, who declined multiple requests by the News to discuss his quarterback evaluations from the 2018 draft, has been impressed with Darnold since taking over in January. There are still plenty of areas for improvement, but the Jets coach now believes the quarterback who didn’t initially jump off the tape can be a special player. Fourteen years ago, 49ers offensive coordinator Mike McCarthy wasn’t a believer in Aaron Rodgers. He convinced then-head coach Mike Nolan to take Alex Smith with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2005 draft. Less than a year later, McCarthy took over in Green Bay and became a Super Bowl champion and perennial winner thanks to Rodgers’ greatness. Gase can only hope that Darnold will do the same for him.
