I was wondering the same thing .. I saw some fotos at a glance earlier but didn't read up .. maybe that was Bert? Where's Waldo?! I mean Bert. Bert Wilder? Bert Cooper? Bert & Earnie?
Sorry NC but IMO you are dead wrong on this one. Win 10 games with a rookie QB and we don't need to sink to the bottom for a may be QB. Fact is teams that are perennial winners never need to sink to the bottom for the first pick. And teams that sink to the bottom for the first pick, like Cleveland, time and time again, never get out of the hole. The notion of getting the first pick for a one year wonder like Sam is a pipe dream. There is no Andrew Luck waiting in the wings in 2018. Would however be thrilled if you can prove me wrong and get another Broadway Joe in 2018.
Obviously, I disagree. Darnold, Allen, Falk or several QBs could be seen as the next Andrew Luck by next year's draft. More importantly, it's not just about getting the QB. If we need to get a QB, we'd be in prime position to get the one we wanted. If we don't need a QB, we'd be in prime position to really load the team up with prime talent. As I said earlier, Hack or Petty could develop and be our franchise QB, but having the #1 pick would still guarantee us our choice of the best player in the draft, trading down for a bucket load of picks, and would set us up for fixing our pass rush, our offense (including our OL) and the CB position. Saying that just because we get the #1 pick next year, that we will suck going forward and be akin to Cleveland is just backwards, narrow thinking.
Ok.will agree to disagree. In my mind there is no more narrow thinking that to hope for the #1 pick next year. It would indicate to me a total collapse of the talent we have, far more than the QB. If either young QB develops this year, this team will have enough talent to win a few games so the number one pick is wishful thinking. If they don't, then we will start all over again with a new QB and a lot more in 2018. That will be another 3-4 year journey in the hope we find our savior. May be I'm getting too old to wait that long.
I'll say it. Having the #1 pick doesn't mean much. The Steelers haven't had the #1 pick since 1970, and have 6 Super Bowl wins and 8 AFC Championships in that time. The Patriots haven't had the #1 pick since 1993, and have 5 Super Bowl wins and 8 AFC Championships in that time. #1 picks who have won at least 1 SB while on the team that picked them: 1998 Peyton Manning 1997 Orlando Pace 1993 Drew Bledsoe (Backup) 1991 Russell Maryland 1989 Troy Aikman 1974 Ed "Too Tall" Jones 1970 Terry Bradshaw 1967 Bubba Smith 1957 Paul Hornung That's 9 out of 62 going back to 1955 (guys drafted before '55 were unlikely to still be playing in 1966 when the SB came about). This idea that the Jets just need to suck it up and tank for a savior is bullshit. Look at that list. Three QBs that were drafted #1 overall have ever won championships with the team that drafted them. THREE! Four if you count Eli Manning, as he was traded before the first round was even over, if I recall correctly. It's cool though. I will enjoy the bounty of championship rings and trophies if the Jets land a magical savior. Otherwise I'll really the posts around here while the team suffers through the next Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Jeff George, etc. Tanking for a savior sounds easy, but what happens when you tank and end up with a dud? I'm all for playing for the worst possible pick, and making the best use of it--you're better off finding the next Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Ben Roethlisberger, or whomever, elsewhere in the draft. If you can't do that, trade the farm for an Eli, or an Elway.
Sorry, but like the others who have the same viewpoint, your reasoning is a fail for several reasons, and the lengths that some of you have gone to try to argue against it is funny. I've only seen a couple of people advocating a tank job, and they may have been kidding. I'm certainly not. It's not like I or others are wanting Mac and Bowles to order the players to lay down and not try. That idea is abhorrent to me. I and some others just don't think the team will win more than 3-4 times and hope they don't, unless Hack or Petty prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that one or both are FQBs and a lot of the other young players develop. First and foremost, the team needs to find a FQB if we are to have any hopes of winning consistently, much less getting to or winning a SB. If Petty or Hack aren't the answer, we need to find that QB in the 2018 draft if we hope to become winners any time soon. The team could play hard, smart, tough, disciplined football and lose almost every game 14-10 or by a single score. That would show that our D is greatly improved, that our offense had improved and we had a lot of potential for the future. First and foremost, it isn't just about having the first pick of the draft as some magic panacea. It's about having the first pick in every round of the draft and the opportunities that presents for trade downs and for greatly improving the overall talent level of the team. If you and others can't understand how that could and should help the team turn things around very quickly, then I can't help you, because you're ignoring the history of the draft and/or just don't want to see how it could help. If the Jets had the #1 pick in this year's draft, the Jets' draft could have looked something like this: #1 Garrett Myles #2 Marcus Maye (or Budda Baker or Kevin King) #3 Ahkello Witherspoon (or Alvin Kamara or Cooper Kupp or Pat Elflein) #3b compensatory pick Cordrea Tankersley (or Rasul Douglas or any of the other compensatory picks or players taken at the top of the 4th rd.) #5 - Jake Butt (or Jordan Leggett) #6 - Elijah McGuire #7 - Zane Gonzalez Any trade downs could have greatly changed things as well as if the Jets took different players than the Browns, it would have probably changed the way players fell thereafter. Second, you're trying to argue because not many #1 pick QBs have won a SB that it can't happen again. Just because it hasn't happened much doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen again. I'd certainly rather take my chances with a true franchise-caliber QB taken at the top of the draft than with some mid-round QB. Third, if neither Hack nor Petty prove that they can be our FQB going forward, getting the #1 pick insures that the Jets have the opportunity to take the very best QB in the draft, and have a much better chance of finding that FQB. We all know (or should) that the Jets will never be consistent winners if they don't get a FQB. Thus, getting the #1 pick would be an insurance policy if neither Hack nor Petty develop, and would give the fans some hope going forward. That does't mean that we'd necessary use the #1 pick on the QB we wanted. The QB we wanted might be ranked as a mid-first round pick. In that scenario, the Jets could quite possibly trade down, garner additional picks, and still get the QB they wanted. They'd also have more ability to trade up or down in other rounds to get a QB, pass rusher or LT that they want. Fourth, you and the others, seem to be looking at it as if I and others are hellbent on getting the #1 pick and getting it for multiple seasons. We aren't. We want it this one time, and then hopefully, never again. It's also not so much about absolutely getting the #1 pick, as getting a top 3 pick, as picking 2nd or 3rd would be almost as good as having the 1st pick. Between our schedule, the holes in crucial areas, the incompetence of our HC and DC, the lack of depth at some positions, and in spite of our improved talent base, we are still lagging behind other teams talent-wise, so many of us don't see the team as capable of winning over 3-4 games. Even winning 4 games could be too many to get the QB we want in the 2018 draft, or the stud pass-rushing OLB, or our next LT, or our next #1 CB, or a #1 WR, or a stud RB. I/we just don't want the team to pick this year to overachieve as we have in the past and have it wind up costing us dearly. When this has happened, the talent level of the team was never as good as owner, CS and GM thought, and subsequent moves were made to try to compete immediately rather than continuing to have patience and build the right way. Also, we wound up missing out on players who could have really helped the Jets turn things around. Fourth, we aren't the Steelers or the Patriots. We don't have the talent they do. We don't have the organization that they do with the great owners and stability. We don't have a HOF HC. So trying to compare and look at it from the perspective of those teams is nonsensical. It's like trying to compare an orange to an apple. Fifth, wins this season mean little. What's most important is developing the younger players and finding out who can help us going forward. If a lot of the youngsters develop (including Petty and/or Hack) and the Jets win 6-7 games, fine. Most of us hoping for a top 3 draft pick will be happy and satisfied, because it will mean that we have our FQB, and some excellent young talent. It could also mean that Bowles has learned or isn't as bad as we thought. It would give us reason to believe going forward. Conversely, winning 6-7 with McCown at QB would be awful and practically meaningless. It would mean that we have some good young talent, but most of us think that already. It would mean that maybe Bowles and Rodgers are better than we thought, but most of us would still probably have strong doubts about them. If neither Hack nor Petty prove they can be our FQB with those 6-7 wins, however, it would mean that our chances of finding a true FQB in next year's draft would be nil, and we would have little hope for the future. Finally, what is glaringly apparent is that you and others are just afraid, period. You're more afraid of having your hopes dashed by the Jets getting the #1 pick and picking a dud/bust than you are their continuing to be stuck in the mediocre hell that they're in now. Not me. Achieving greatness requires risks. It takes daring, not fear. If the Jets have the #1 or #2 pick in next year's draft, the Jets think they need a QB, and there's one or two that are considered to be "can't miss" prospects, I hope that Mac will have the balls to swing for the fences and take one of them, even trading up if necessary, rather than playing it safe and taking the "BPA" at another position. If not, I'll want his head and his balls on a platter. If he takes a QB and the QB busts, it will be disappointing, but no more disappointing than "playing it safe" and continuing with the same BS suckass level of play that we've been getting from JAG QBs seemingly forever.
An excellent post NCjetsfan, I have never managed to get across in all my posts on the subject that it isn't just about pick number one, but pick number 1 in round 2,3,4 etc etc all the possibilities of trades from those positions could leave us in a great spot to crack on with our rebuild, all the better if we don't have to waste a pick on a new QB, I like the look and sound of Hack, he just has to deliver when he gets his chance.
That's a lot of words for, "No, I don't have an example of any team who got the vaunted #1 overall pick (and subsequent #1 pick in every other round) and turned their franchise around, at least not since Colts picked Peyton Manning, two decades ago--and that doesn't count as a turn around, too much, since that Colts team was only 2 years removed from an AFCCG appearance, and 1 year removed from their last playoff appearance, so maybe Aikman in '89? Bruce Smith in '85?" Also, Scared? No. I'd simply rather root for a bad team than one who tanked to get ahead or one that cheated in any way. You can call that poor strategy if you want. The day I feel like the Jets tank a game or cheat in any way is the day I find a new team to watch. I'd rather endure 20 straight losing seasons.
You obviously have reading comprehension issues. You're still babbling on about what player was taken #1 and whether his team had won a SB as if that's some kind of salient point. It isn't for all the reasons I stated. I also clearly stated that I was not advocating tanking and that I never have, yet you continue to talk about tanking. You clearly need to study draft history. The teams who have turned things around quickly have done it with the draft following lousy records like 3-13. Teams that are perennially 7-9. 8-8, or 9-7 have the hardest time turning things around because their draft position sucks and they can't get the talent/players they need to turn things around. I've seen it in practice and have read several articles about it as well. You couldn't be more wrong. IMO you are afraid. You're afraid of success. You're just in denial about it. You've grown comfortable with losing and the team sucking, and fear what change would mean; otherwise you wouldn't say that you'd rather endure 20 straight losing seasons. So I'm done discussing this with you. It's like talking to a brick wall. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
