He has the right mental approach, just needs to get work in and really showcase his ability. He def needs to sit a year I think, unless he can pull off miracles over a summer.
I highlighted one thing you mentioned in your post. This is a point most people tend to forget. When he first arrived at the school Penn St was on probation and had a limited number scholarships they were allowed to hand out. The NCAA has since rescinded the penalty but the scholarships were fazed back in over the course of three years.
Ok reading this thread and the other Hack thread- a couple of opinions. Not killing the pick anymore, I'm on board and I'm going to root like hell for this kid. Again, just my opinion but the comparisons between Hack and Cutler are off base. Hack does not have the arm talent of Cutler. Don't see it at all. Second point, reading all the rationale for Hack's accuracy and inconsistency issues in college (skill set doesn't fit the system, change of system, awful OLine, shell shocked, bad coaching, etc etc etc) what is becoming more and more evident to ME is that he is just not a natural thrower of the football. If we have to fix all of his mechanics and footwork and delivery to bring out the potential means he's just not a natural. Huge arm, can throw a great ball if everything is perfect, gets his feet set, has time etc etc etc to ME- is what I think my issue is. There are guys that can roll out of bed and throw pure and under the most trying of situations-those guys are natural throwers that don't need to have their "mechanics" overhauled. Again, I'm on board with the pick and hope Gailey can fix him but I don't think we're bad Jet fans because we have concerns about his play in college. _
Take a QB till you find one. I have faith Mac knows what he's doing. Hackenberg has his flaws but also has positives. IMO he has an enormous ceiling but a low floor. I guess Mac felt it was a calculated risk.
He had a great HS career One decent year in College Going to Jets is College Redo Hack to the Future Lol This should be interesting to say the least
Really this is the reverse argument of what is used against most college QB's who don't come from a pro-style argument. In the case of the latter the question is always 'was his success system based?'. Or the other argument often applied against successful college QB's is 'he played on a team whose receivers far exceeded the defensive players'. this latter argument is often applied to small school QB's or QB's who's receivers were consistently getting large separation in routes. The reality is the QB draft process is probably one of the least predictable of all the skill positions in football. Many lower drafted QB's never really get a chance to win a starting job, if you're taking a QB in the 3rd or 4th round or later the team probably has a starting QB well established and most of those guys never get a chance on the field so we'll never know if they could have been good or not. By the same token Football Outsiders did a study on QB's draft by round from 1994-2013. I won't post all their findings, but when you look at the DVOA of the top 25 QB's drafted over that time 9 of the top 25 were taken after the 2nd round and 3 of the top 10 were drafted after the 2nd (Brady, Romo, Warner, the latter two being UDFA's who just got a chance to start and excelled). But what I found interesting was his breakdown on QB's by round where they divided them (subjectively ) by round. The categories were Good (or better), Undecided (some good years some bad years but still in their prime when the study was done), the Mediocre, The Ugly (and I really think they should have just done those latter two as one category), and the 'winning ugly, guys who were bad QB's on very good teams that had a winning year or two (Dilfer, Sanchez, Tebow, Vince Young, Rex Grossman, type of players. I'm only going to do the good and the undecided. Round 1 49 QB's taken 19 (38.7%) good, 4 (8.2%) undecided. Round 2 22 QB's taken 5 (22.8%) good, 3 (13.6%) undecided. Round 3 24 QB's taken 4 (16.7%) good, 2 (8.3%) undecided. Round 4 28 QB's taken 3 (10.7%) good, 4 (14.2%) undecided (note if this were done today Cousins would be added to the good category most likely adding one to that category) Round 5 28 QB's taken......none ranked as good or undecided....the 5th round over that 20 year period was barren.... Round 6 39 QB's taken 3 (7.7%) ranked as good. Round 7 47 QB's taken 6 (12.8%) good , 4 (8.5%) undecided. There's no record of how many UDFA QB's were signed but we need to add that 4 of the top 25 QB's from that time period (in terms of DVOA) were UDFA's. (Romo, Warner, Garcia, Jay Fielder) It's no surprise that more Good QB's come from round 1, but still only roughly 2 in 5 First round QB's turn out to be league average or better. What's remarkable is that after the third round the 7th round has been the most successful round to get a good QB of the latter rounds. The reality is Any QB you take, regardless of round, is more likely to bust than be a success.
I think that's why he's one of the most hotly debated QB prospects in recent memory - it's easy to see both sides of the argument for/against him. I guess the best way I can put it, and what seems to be the hot button issue, is that I don't think there are that many issues with him individually as a prospect, I think his situation in college was THAT bad under Franklin. Some people think his situation was overblown and that if he was good enough he would have overcome it. I don't buy that, having seen most of his career at Penn State. The team (re: the offense) was THAT bad. Former players were lighting up Franklin/Donovan on social media last year. Donovan Smith (OL taken early in the 2nd round in the '14 draft) hinted that the coaching deficiencies were the reason he left a year early for the draft. The play-calling and system was simple and predictable. Former Vanderbilt (Franklin's previous gig) players and media members said that these types of offensive woes were nothing new for Franklin-led teams. I don't think Hack has to completely overhaul his mechanics, I don't think he needs to get his feet set perfectly to succeed, etc. Like any QB really, I think he needs to have decent coaching and some talent around him, and the Jets will be able to provide that.
I remember thinking last year that I wish we could meld Fitz's brain with Geno's arm. I think Macc has done that by drafting Hack. Now he just needs to be coached up and move on from the the last 2 years.
some caveats not only did petty run a more qb friendly system, but he was in the same system the entire time ... petty didnt start for three years. he lost a qb competition to nick florence. a talent like youre describing shouldnt lose that competition but i happen to think theyre similarly talented throwing the ball
Nicely articulated post. We will find out soon enough if this kid can play or not. I think it's fair to have concerns over what was seen in his 3 years but now that he's a Jet, lets, as you said root like hell for any QB we have on the roster.
I think you have a good point regarding Hack's possibly not being a natural thrower, but is that the worst thing in the world? Of course it would be better if he were a natural thrower, but if that can be fixed (and I think it possibly can), he can be the franchise QB we've been looking for forever. Off the top of my head, I can think of two natural throwers who played a long time in the NFL, but who made a ton of stupid decisions, threw a lot of bad interceptions and never learned anything in all their years in the NFL...Brett Favre and Vinny Testaverde. I would have added Cutler to that group, but he seems to have learned a little this past season. Which would you rather have, a QB who is a natural thrower, but who makes bad decisions, tries to force the ball and throws a lot of interceptions, or a QB who had to work out his fundamentals, but may be much smarter with his decision making, and throws fewer interceptions?
Lol he redshirted one year, sat behind RG3 his freshman year and his soph year he backed up the senior starter-no crime there. His junior and senior years his production was off the charts. Regardless of system. _
Great post! (Wish we had a clapping hands emoji on this site. Other Jets sites I've posted on had them.)
Pretty much exactly. We'll never know how far down the draft Hackenberg would have gone had the Jets not picked him, he could have gone in the next pick, he could have gone UDFA, we'll never know and any comment about where he should have gone or would have gone is just conjecture. I personally think he would have gone in the third and probably to the Browns with one of their first two picks...but that's just purely conjecture, but it is based on a lot of rumors the Browns were looking at Hackenberg prior to obtaining RGIII and since they still took a QB in the third I think it's likely that might have been Hackenberg. It is worth noting that, and I haven't verified this but it's listed on CBS sports.com so it's probably accurate, that he left Penn state as their all time leading passer in yards, 300 yard games, and TD's and he did it playing on a team that was under severe sanctions. But, that's not overly impressive when you consider the NFL starting QB's who have come out of Penn State, Todd Blackledge and Kerry Collins....that's it, so take it for what it's worth. Having watched a lot of tape at this point I think a lot of Hackenbergs problems have been footwork related. With that O-line I can understand having happy feet, but when he had time and kept his footwork he was accurate as hell. He was at his best under center in the dropback, as long as the o-line gave him half a chance. But as it got later in to season 2 and all of season 3, he was antsy, it got to where it seemed almost all the time he expected a rusher on top of him and his feet were acting that way. I think if the footwork gets fixed he'll be golden. as far as armstrength, you look at arm strength rankings he was almost consistently listed as the second strongest arm in the draft.
Jaws once said Kaepernick could be the best QB ever to play the game. Please do not put any stock into what he says. I think Gruden at times is a freaking drunk when he talks during MNF, but I trust his word far more then Jaws. Even if he likes every damn QB prospect available.
Was Druckenmiller's or is Mallett's football IQs as high as Hacks? I may be wrong, but don't think so. That imo, gives Hack a higher floor. Time will only tell, but if the articles, the Gruden QB camp and the video evaluating Hack are even remotely accurate, then I think Hacks' football IQ and mental aptitude for the game could approach Peyton Manning's level.
