maybe not turnover machine, that may be a bit far... but certainly turnover prone. especially the first 2 seasons
you throw it away... unless you are geno, then you run out of bounds 7 yards behind the line of scrimmag
my thing is, he wasnt dominant before his 2nd and 3rd year and all the BS he had a really solid year, and had prototypical size. he had a ton of promise. but he never had some great season. he was under 60% completions and threw 10 picks on under 400 attempts and struggled vs. .500+ competition. everyone was high on him because from that starting point it was looking like he was sure to develop into the next great college qb. problem is that never happened. maybe it was all the changes and maybe it was him or maybe it was both. but it never happened regardless. alot of the narrative is that he just stunk after all the crap went down. the reality is he never had a great season in any of his 3 years there. so there is alot of unkown, and alot of speculation on where he would have been if things stayed the same. he wouldnt be the first qb to drastically improve on a good freshman year and he wouldnt be the first to fall flat after a promosing start
At best I might give you his second season but not the first. He had only 10 INTs as TRUE FRESHMAN in the Big 10. Hackenberg has A LOT of negatives but turnover prone is not one of them.
When factor in that he was a true freshman starting at QB in the Big 10 running a pro-style offense, his freshman year was pretty spectacular.
You mention Stafford and Cutler as college QBs that has a poor completion percentage in college only to succeed in the NFL. Another one not mentioned is one of the best QBs that ever lived, Brett Favre. Finished his career at 52%. hell Brady was barely 60% at Michigan and he might be the most accurate NFL passer ever. You can add Carson Palmer to that list as well. 59% career at USC The thing about completion percentage is that in the college game it can be deceiving and a lot of teams make direct parallels to the NFL game when they shouldn't. Geno Smith had over 70% completion percentage his senior year at WVU and he can't exceed 60% in the NFL. Teblow was high 60s his whole career at Florida only to throw like 40% in the NFL. College offenses are very different than NFL offenses. Especially these spread offenses that throw a lot of short passes at the line - that doesn't translate to the NFL. It inflates their completion percentage. Also in college there are greater talent gaps than in the NFL. That's one of the things I look for when I watch a college QB. Besides the passes thrown at the line- how many times did they have WRs absolutely WIDE OPEN downfield? because they aren't going to have that in the NFL. That's one of the reasons I was so high on Winston last year. I viewed him as an Andrew Luck caliber prospect.- He didn't have wide open guys all the time, he didn't play in a gimmick spread offense, and he still managed to throw 66% and 65 TDs in 2 years. Hackenberg, obviously is no Winston, statistically or otherwise, but I care less about his completion percentage because he was making more difficult throws and in most if not nearly all games, his teams didn't have a significant talent advantage. It sounds silly I know, but I worry more about his small hands than I do about his completion percentage. That can result in a fumbler. Hackenberg is also not good at the WR screens at the line- - oh well, I hate those shitty plays.
it really is stupid to criticize anything about the guy's freshman year. He was on Andrew Luck trajectory at that point. There are plenty of things to knock Hackenberg for. Someone could write a book on the negatives from his sophomore and junior years. But jersey jay trying to knock his freshman year just makes him look dumb. he was awesome that year
Are you looking at why he didn't take that next step tho? Everything around him changed schematically and the talent on the Line was putrid. Continuity is the most important thing in sports, it's what drives success and development for athletes. If BOB stays all 3 years Hack goes too 10 I truly believe that. Also not many true freshmen start at QB for a Big time D1 program so you referencing his numbers is only one siding the entire story. Watch the film, see the throws he's making, line adjustments, going through progressions and also see some of the issues he has and examine it that way. Then look at years 2 and 3 and look at those muddy pockets he throwing into, dropped passes and also his lack of touch at times, all arm no lower body throws. There's positives and negatives there but this is where you trust your scouts and coaching staff.
Spot on. Hackenberg did attempt tons of difficult throws, but he did it with awful technique to boot. The small hand debate has gotten lost in all of this because of his other issues. He has the same size as Goff. The real question is, is there a true correlation between a QB thriving and the size of their hands? Derek Carr and Teddy's hands are barely bigger.
Training camp and preseason games might really be worth getting out to this year. The Jets have 3 huge, athletic, young QBs who can all put on a show with their arms. Those are fun to watch live.
Wow, new Penn State coaching staff really messed up Hackenberg's footwork. Gruden piled on him for why he changed it. He said it was the new staff. Also, the staff wanted to run alot of Jet Sweeps which boggled Gruden. One thing is for sure, he looks like he can command a huddle and has leadership qualities that a whole franchise can rally behind. Gruden was clearly smitten by him. Also, I saw Jaws on BSPN yesterday said the Jets were a loser for not taking a franchise QB in Paxton Lynch even though Darron Lee looks like a player. Jaws needs to get demoted further on the BSPN.
I'm a Penn State fan, watched all but a few of Hack's college games. I will say that I'm thrilled the Jets took him, though I would have preferred for it to be in Rd 3 but I guess Mac felt he'd be gone by then. The last two years have been painful in Happy Valley, Franklin and now-former OC John Donovan displayed some of the worst game-planning and in-game coaching I've ever seen. To me, in addition to the poor fit and coaching issues, Hack got shell-shocked under Franklin. I don't think many fans realize just how decimated the Penn State program was after the sanctions. You can't overstate how bad their OL was. It wasn't bad by Big 10 standards, it was bad by DI standards. Two of their OL were converted DL and they were undersized, inexperienced and just plain awful in pass protection. Even against inferior teams like Illinois there were too many plays where he couldn't complete his drop before he was getting hit. So many all-22 replays during games showed every target covered downfield when he did have time to pass and when he threw a WR open the pass would be dropped. It really was a comedy of issues, something went wrong on almost every play. His mechanics and footwork started to slip, you could tell he wasn't comfortable in the pocket. They had no receivers after Allen Robinson went pro and no real weapons until Saquan Barkley emerged last year. I think it was the Ohio State game last year (maybe two years ago) where PSU called something like 14 bubble screens because they couldn't do anything else. Receivers couldn't get open and the OL couldn't provide any protection. I do believe a lot of his struggles were due to a bad fit, a lack of talent around him and poor coaching, but he was clearly a mess in his own right - he held on to the ball too long and missed too many routine throws and check-downs but I think that came with the issue of being shell-shocked. I don't know if this is true but apparently he had less control at the LOS under Franklin (couldn't audible as freely) and had to go through his progressions no matter what he saw during the pre-snap read - even if he spotted a weakness that would lead to say his #3 option being wide open ASAP. Sounded like a very rigid system that wouldn't let the QB his smarts as often as possible. I think you have to be impressed with his freshman year, his football IQ and his physical tools. I think if O'Brien was in Happy Valley all three seasons with Hack that he'd have been a Top 10 pick. I think his issues are fixable (accuracy is the biggest concern for me, and really the only huge one) and I'm sure Gailey is thrilled to work with him. To me, I'd rather have a guy like Hack - who has excelled in a pro system - vs a guy like Paxton Lynch who is raw as hell from a one-read college system. You have to like that he's faced adversity, that he hasn't been pampered, that he didn't come from a loaded college program with a superior offensive line that allowed him all day to find a target. I'm not concerned with any character or off-the-field rumors nor do I care if said negative things about James Franklin (who will be run out of Happy Valley sooner rather than later). Hopefully we re-sign Fitz so Hack can get some mentoring in addition to what Gailey will bring to the table. I'm cautiously optimistic about this situation.
Idk how much the back foot thing really matters. Maybe a lot maybe a little, who knows. But the jet sweep crap in their offense was so so stupid. You have a bright QB and a terrible offensive line. Even if you don't know anything about the game, you'd say, well give that QB the ball as quickly as possible out of the shot gun and let him find the open receiver before he gets crushed. What do they do? lets have the QB fake 2 jet sweeps taking time and then direct him to just duck and throw it to 1 reciever because at that point he's gonna get killed. smart plan
Andrew Luck lost Harbaugh but Shaw kept everything the same. Marcus Mariota lose Kelly but Helfrich kept everything the same. 2 recent scenarios of top prospects going through coaching changes. The difference in the pros when you deal with a coaching change or an OC change is that most coaches fit their schemes to the talent they have and mix in new ideas year by year. My hope is Mac and Bowles are here for years to come because it will do wonders for Petty and Hackenberg
Scenario- quick slant to the right Left foot back- takes the snap right foot plants, steps into throw with left foot. You get better timing and accuracy on that throw since the footwork motion works in that direction. Everything is more fluid. Right foot back- takes the snap but his right foot is already planted so you cannot use your lower body because the timing of the route will be off. If you do then you'll be late and a good defense is taking that to the house or the ball is thrown behind the target. The simplest pass in football is affected by his left foot being back vs his right foot and the coaching staff stuck with it because of a Jet sweep, pass run option smh
You mention Carson Palmer. Hackenberg reminds me a bit of him. Big guy, cannon arm, stands tall in the pocket. Good QB, but sometimes makes some head scratching mistakes. He was a turnover machine at USC, nearly 1-1 TD to turnover ratio in the first three years of his college career. But the thing that makes Hack like Palmer is his preparation. That article by Jenny Vrentas in SI on Hack explained how he followed the Arizona Cardinals and gameplaned their playoff run last year with Carsons brother. And Carson's prep for games and obsession with detail is legendary.
The Palmer comparison is probably the best. Even if the guy is/was a turnover machine I'd be thrilled if Hack developed into that level of a QB, I think we all would.
that's Hackenberg's ceiling in this league- I'll agree. Carson Palmer. In level and style. Thats why its both funny and encouraging that he's training with Palmer's brother. his floor is Ryan Mallett/Jim Druckenmiller. All three are big ass dudes who look the part of great QBs but struggle with accuracy.
