So Belichick was a HOF coach with the Browns? I remember him being on the hot seat prior to Brady starting on the Pats also. Brady once he got his shot, took time to develop but the talent was there, the potential needed to be fulfilled. We really don't know how good or how bad Bowles and Hack could be.
Wait, this whole debate is based on your statement that if Hack is a FQB the rebuild is over and we're one or two players shy of competing for a WC spot in the playoffs. Now by that logic , if Hack steps up we are likely picking much higher than 5th. I don't see Allen , Darnold or Rosen available past 3 . The next group after the big 3 QBs is likely Arden Key, Derwin James and McFadden. It's still way too early to judge next year's draft but Allen is now the Consensus #1 pick. The teams picking ahead of us, are more than likely going to be teams in need of a QB But if your original premise is correct, we are in position to take the missing pices at 5 and 37 and couldn't think of trading down when that would mean missing that key missing piece. I posted earlier that Hack proving to be the guy would give us the opportunity to add picks to speed up the rebuilding process, but still stand by my statement that the rebuild is not over if Hack proves to be a FQB. This is a complete rebuild after all, not just a QB search.
I agree with your first paragraph. I think it is entirely possible that Hack could show himself to be a FQB this season and yet the Jets still only win 3-4 games, maybe less. To clarify, are you saying that the rebuild would be over in Woody's mind if Hack proves to be a FQB or if the Jets get Allen or Darnold in the draft next year, or just in general? If it's the former, then I could get on board with that possibility, even though it would be totally stupid imo (but then that's Woody in a nutshell). If it's the latter, there is where we will never agree. That just makes no sense to me. The team won't be complete, there will still be a lot of missing pieces and likely a lack of depth. This team's talent level needs upgrading and overhauling. Just getting a FQB doesn't accomplish that in and of itself. It certainly helps, but there would still need to be a lot of improvement. One player, even a quality QB does not a team make.
I agree that this is not just a QB search, and is instead a complete rebuild, which is gonna take longer and require more than just adding a FQB. It seems to me that where we differ evidently is where we would be picking in the draft next year if Hack proves that he is a FQB this season. You evidently think that would automatically equate to 5-6 wins at a minimum, which would have us drafting outside the top 3. I don't. Hack could play very well, but the team could continue to be plagued by the same kinds of things it has the last 2 seasons: not being prepared, sloppy play, poor game and clock management, no adjustments on the part of Bowles and his CS. Hack could play well and his play be undermined by dropped passes, fumbles, poor OL play, lack of a pass rush, and/or major injuries to key players. Young teams often have to learn how to win. Hack could have the team in every game, but due to their lack of talent and depth, rookie mistakes or lack of experience, the Jets could wind up losing late in the 4th qtr. most weeks. In that way, the team could wind up winning 3 games or less, which probably would have them drafting top 3, if not top 2.
You and I are in complete agreement. You joined mid conversation and I was replying based on 101's premise that if Hack proves to be a FQB, we are only one or 2 players from the playoffs. A WC spot being 9 -10 wins. As far as what this season will bring, I have low expectations. I think we are in the beginning stages of a multi year process and hope the organization stays the course and is committed to doing so. If Hack proves to be the FQB , I hope it's not going to lead to a spending spree coupled with trading for vets . We know that will lead to short term success followed by years of mediocrity.
Sorry if I misunderstood your intent. We are in complete agreement. Let's just hope and pray that Woody is as well.
Under these 3 conditions. 1. Hack becomes FQB 2. The following players are legitimate players [and take that next step]: - Darron Lee - Juston Burris - Jamal Adams - ASJ / Leggett - Jordan Jenkins - Brandon Shell - 2 of the 3 young receivers like Peake, Hansen and Enunwa [all 3 I think have futures on this roster] 3. Jets take their high 2018 pick and turn it into gold [2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder]. Use that to get a LT and EDGE rusher. THAT + another strong draft IS the overhaul, the talent level would increase immensely. The Jets are an unknown. As I told Tony, it could go bad or really good. I think some of these youngsters will step up but will fail to win games because they are young and inexperienced. You can find a RB in the later rounds, fill in holes via FA. This is what I have been saying the entire time. I don't really care what Woody thinks, this is just out of my own eyes on where this team COULD go.
Thanks for the clarification. IMO this isn't what you've been saying. What I've seen you say is that once the Jets get a FQB the rebuild is over. Now you're saying that that group of players have to take the next step/develop, the Jets get a high draft pick, trade it for high picks, fill their LT and OLB pass rusher needs AND one more strong draft. Those are two different things. If all what you say in this post happens, then yes, the rebuild would be over for all intents and purposes, but again, that's not just getting a FQB.
Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, but it was what I was saying. It was always about the core, but this specific scenario starts with the QB. Just like the Raiders, the rebuild was over when they found out Carr was the guy his rookie year. They got Cooper the next draft, got some FAs and just like that they were contending. 2018 needs to be an A+ draft. In each post, I mentioned the CORE of players. The majority of the core players are already on the team. Perhaps I did not clarify that enough, and I will take accountability for that.
That's why I asked the clarifying questions. I suspected that was the case precisely because you did continue to mention the core players. Sometimes a thing is clear in our minds, but when we go to explain it to someone else, it doesn't come out that clearly to others. We all use words differently, so clear communication can sometimes take some work. I know I sometimes post things in a hurry and think they're clear, but when I see them later or after someone responds, I realize that I wasn't very clear or left out a key word that can totally change the meaning of what I wrote. Thanks again for the clarification.
Eh. Rebuilds aren't what they used to be when you would totally gut a franchise and hope for 2-14, 5-11, 7-9, 9-7, and then finally compete for a division. That used to be the old way things were done in the NFL. A rebuild was like a 4-5 year project. The Jets tore it down but the NFL is a quick turnaround league. And no two rebuilds are the same. The fact is our defense is pretty talented (well ahead of the offense at this point) which should mean that if we can find our QB, be it Darnold or Cousins or Allen or somebody...we can probably field a team that should compete for a playoff spot in 2018.
Jeez. As bad as some of the QB's are in the NFL I am suprised Cutler is retired. I still think the moment a playoff team has a QB go down he gets a call in Nashville. I think the simple fact for Macc was he realized he had to attach his career to a young QB. It was going to be on a franchise prospect. He got nowhere with Fitz and Geno so he realized that he had to start from scratch. He had to sign somebody so he signed McCown who wouldn't get in the way of Hackenberg's progress. At this time, Hackenberg probably gets the same chance Petty did.
This roster is far from a QB away from being a playoff contender. We need RBs( Powell and Forte will be even older in 18) and neither is a top tier RB. We have no true #1 WR. Lots of young players but none are even top 25 and would be 3rd or 4th options on almost every NFL roster . There are tons of questions at LB and CB. The O line needs upgrading. We have a core of Williams , possibly MO if he shows up , and Adam's who seems like the read deal to build around. There's no depth at most positions and an injury to any of those 3 likely mean losses will pile up. We can buy band aids in Free Agency and hope for a wild card in 18 but won't be a serious contender . We all know where that approach leads. A legit rebuild still takes 3-4 years. Especially with a roster as talent poor as ours is right now. If we're a QB away from the playoffs, do we make the postseason this year if Hack shows he is the FQB going forward?
The Jets aren't "cursed" by fate or by God. They have been, continue to be, and probably will be "forevercursed" by stupid thought processes and decisions like thinking we're better than we are, are only a QB away, and trying to go for it too soon. We are cursed by having a moron for an owner. He is the source of ALL of our problems. If we could get a new owner, one with some humility and common sense, who knew what he didn't know and knew he needed to hire a quality football man to run the team, then this team's fortunes would start changing.
