You need to understand how a draft pick works. It takes three (3) years for a draft pick to become comfortable in the NFL. Some reach it faster than others. Too bad that you want immediate results. Every coach, scout and GM agree with me. Players too. Patience is a virtue in the NFL. Not every player gets it right away. You can name all the guys who didn't come out the gate being awesome, but I can name players who have. Pace was misdrafted, Thomas didn't warrant a 1st round grade, Vlad was a project coming out of college because he went to a small school and he made a switch from Tackle to Guard. You hope Callahan is as good as advertised but then you talk about Slauson and who do you think his development is attributed to? Odd.
How about Mario Williams who "sucked" in his first season and then became a dominant, scary bastard the rest of his career? The bad ones were bad early? I don't understand why you think the NFL is similar to college football, because it sure as hell isn't. That's a commonly awful misconception. How about almost every WR who catches 24 balls in his 1st season and drops 6 others, and then goes on to catch 75 balls and 9 TDs and drop only 2 passes? Or the CB who is toast in his rookie year and then goes on to become a tough guy to get past in his 2nd, like Vontae Davis? Its a weak theory.
I was more worried about Slauson than Ducasse. Vlad is a giant with about 5 years of (non-premiere) football experience. Doesn't come off as the smartest guy in the world but Callahan is THE guy when it comes to o-linemen. I'd like Hunter resigned for insurance but Vlad IMO will be a starter sometime next season. He has the potential to be a probowler but that's just me being greedy.
Dude, this is not weak at all-- it's my opinion based on the past. Mario Williams and Vonte Davis were not bad as rookies-- they showed potential. The WR's with 24 catches you are talking about-- that's potential. That's all I'm asking for is a glimmer of hope and so far through 23 games, there hasn't been one. Im sure that NFL scouts and GM's aren't accepting of a high draft pick who doesn't show any promise for 2 years because he needs 3 years. How did you feel about VG after his first year? Justin Miller? Dewayne? Schlegal? 3 years may be the curve for most guys in the NFL, but most guys aren't drafted in the first 2 rounds. These guys are supposed to have an impact. We're not talking about some 5th round guy here. And there is nothing ODD about my comments about calahan-- I know the guy is one of the best in the business. Obviously I just want him to work Vlad into a player. Hopefully he can. I'm sorry, but until a guy shows me something, I'm skeptical. I battled with guys about Schlegal and Ghost for years saying they were horrible, and I'm tired of the apologists telling everyone to give these high picks more time. I would certainly never bitch about a late round pick not developing in a year or two, but rounds 1-2 need to show me something early. My initial post wasn't bashing Vlad. I'm still not bashing him. I just don't have blind faith that this guy is going to come in and start next year.
I find it comical how many of you haven't learned your lesson about young player's development after guys like Brick,Pouha,BT and Revis proved you so very wrong. Often times, when evaluating young players, you have to throw aside the actual on field "results", technique and mental mistakes while concentrating on the overall physical skills, progress from game to game and small improvements along the way. Example: Brick his first 2 years would sometimes get beat on inside moves, bull rushes and from taking poor angles, but he displayed elite feet, the ability to engage and had the frame to put on muscle. Once he put ON that muscle and perfected the technique to defend against bull rushes...he became that elite pass protector many of us said he'd be all along. It took some time, and many wrote him off...but the upside and projections were clear as day. Ducasse is no exception to this principle. When he came to the jets we all knew he was likely going to be a project. The only reason he got thrown into the starting LG conversation was b/c sometimes young OT's who aren't too tall to gain enough leverage, who are struggling w/ their feet or their technique can move inside to guard for a year or two , learn technique for the outside, while having some early on field success. The OT's who aren't ideal for this method of development typically struggle w/ having slow hands for leverage,upper body strength or the mental aspect. Guard may not be as physically challenging as tackle..but when it comes to reads and blocking assignments, it's alot more complicated , as there is alot more going on w/ over/under dt's and inside blitz packages. Ducasse clearly struggled w/ the mental aspect and occassionaly w/ his leverage technique.This is not uncommon for a young lineman, especially one who had never played guard before. That doesn't mean he doesn't project as a starting offensive lineman long term. And for those of you who say he didn't display anything promising, you are dead wrong. Ducasse displayed alot of natural power in the running game, and when he DID get the blocking assignment/technique correct, he plowed open some huge holes for the given ball carrier to go through and also gave the QB ample time to look downfield. Many don't realize that in the FIRST buffalo game, Ducasse played approximately 10 plays at Right tackle. Obviously it was only 10 plays and it was against a poor opponent, but I thought he displayed good feet and decent technique in pass protection, while consistently engaging and driving the DE off the ball in the running game. I'm not suggesting that Ducasse is can't miss. He clearly has a ways to go w/ his development. But he DID show some signs of being a very good offensive lineman long term. Truthfully he reminds me a bit of a rich man's Damien Woody.He has that same compact drive blocking ability that works very well in Callahan's scheme. Rich man i say b/c he's bigger and has the ability to pull inside or out which was never Woody's thing.
^^what he said. Bigcotch: I think I understand your point, but you're missing two things imho: a) that despite being drafted as a 2nd rounder it was known that he was a project... in other words, nobody (CS...) was expecting him to have an impact in his first season. And b) there were no holes in the OL last season. We didn't needed him to show up. He came in as a LT projected to be the future RT. There was no need for him to play as a RT, and when it was needed it was the most critical part of the season when it wasn't the right time to start testing a rookie tackle. I'll insist on the Rodgers example, he spend a couple of seasons holding a clipboard because there was no need for him to play, not because he was a bust. I'm not saying Vlad is a future probowler but there are more reasons for a high pick to not play than being a bust waiting to happen.
Good post, as usual Kurt. I wish you would post more. I think part of the problem is that we saw so many drafted guys come in and start right away from '06 -> '09. It was a lot easier to walk in and start when we didn't have the quality roster we had last year - partially as a result of a lot of good draft picks. Another problem is people don't seem to understand a developmental pick very much. And patience, ah, let's not even go there.
One factoid that people just keep getting wrong about Vlad. He played three years of high school football (at a reasonably big high school btw) and four years of college football (at a low level) and one year of pro. The "he only played five years of football" thing is just wrong.
I don't dispute, as others here have pointed out and fairly so, that Vlad had little opportunity to show us his stuff this past year. I also can only take it so far that he doesn't appear to have challenged Slauson much, despite the fact that Slauson was the weakest starter on O, because I agree unless SLauson sucked once he was in there he was going to stay in. I am merely pointing out that there is little basis to have confidence in Vlad being a starter or even seeing alot of time this coming year. If the FO has alot of confidence in Hunter, they can let Woody go. If not, I think it would be a big mistake to let Woody go and hope for the best from a competition between a not so inspiring faith in Hunter and a hoped for flowering of Vlad at RT. No repeats of the Bender Clarke fiasco with a developing Sanchez back there please.
Completely agree, but again just as it is unreasonable to say Vlad is a bust or anything close to that, as of right now we have no real reason to think he would be able to get it done as the starting RT come opening day.
Well then they better not tell Woody they are not going to try and bring him back unless they have Hunter first. Heh. Or perhaps they do bring Woody back.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they plan on bringing Woody back and they're just saying Vlad is going to be the RT to get some leverage with Woody. If you're serious about making a playoff run in 2011 you really don't want to count on your second year LT turned LG turned RT (unless, of course, he really has demonstrated incredible growth in practice).
I wouldn't say it is a sure thing that he starts opening day but there are reasons to be at least a bit confident. The coaching staff and scouting department saw enough in Vlad to use a second round pick on him when they had more pressing needs to fill on the roster. He has the physical tools to be a very good lineman in the NFL and has one of the best line coaches in the game molding him. None of that makes him a surefire starter week 1 in 2011 but I would say he has a very good chance of it. Unless he is beat out by a more seasoned veteran, in which case he gets another year to learn how to play in the NFL without a ton of pressure on him.
I would lean more towards being comfortable with him as the starter then calling him a bust or whatever though.
Man, I know you just spent a long time typing all that, but you brought up players who all played well early, or needed a change in system after 4-6 poor years before doing anything positive in their careers. I felt better about guys like Jacob Bender, Adrian Jones and Slauson after their first years than I do about Vlad. And don't use revis as an example of players who take time to develop. He had a great rookie year, and was best corner in the NFL by week 1 of his second year. I'm talking about a guy who was inactive for all but 2 games, even with injuries on the offensive line.
I really don't see how any of us can have an informed opinion one way or the other. On the one hand plenty of physically awesome players get picked in rounds one, two oe early in round three yet never work out; on the other hand lots of guys get picked where Ducasse did, don't play as rookies, and turn out to be great. It's just unknowable to a fan at this point.
Fine, Aaron Rodgers then. I'm sure he showed plenty of promise in his first year, unlike Vlad. It's pretty understandable that he would be on the bench because he had a HALL OF FAMER in front of him. Vlad couldn't even challenge Matt Slauson in camp. Slauson was terrible in the beginning of the season, and I would venture to say he was even worse in camp. Yet it was signed sealed delivered that it was Slausons job by the second practice.
The CS saw enough in VG to pick him 6th. He has the most physical tools of anyone on the Jets. He has the best Defensive coach in the NFL. He has had his full 3 years to develop. I hate to use the ghost has an example, and I am also hopeful of Vlad for the same reasons. However, for arguments sake, these things don't always add up to success. In my opinion, if a guy is inactive his entire rookie year, and he doesn't have much comp in front of him, there is a higher chance of him being a low impact player than of him being a big time starter. That's just me. You did make a great point about comparing an OL to a LB, or WR who gets into the rotation. Makes me feel a little better about things. I'm still upset that we didn't hear much good news about the guy and the starting spot was hardly a competition.
