The Pats O averages 20 PPG(13, 32, 24, 14, 17) The D allows 21 PPG The team was known as a defensive team for 3 of the 5 SBs and yet they still average giving up more than the O scored. They scored 38 in the 4th qtr not 28.
My bad on the basic math. They average 1 more point per game. In fact its actual 20.6 vs 20.0.Meaning the difference is actual 1 fg over a span of 5 games more than the offense. Considering 11 Pats average 32.1 points this regular season and put up 17. 07 they average 36.8 and put up 14. 04 27.3 and put up 24. 03 21.8 and put up 32 01 23.2 and put up 14. Defense: 11 Pats average 21.4 points per game, let up 19 (safety) 07 they average 17.1 and gave up 14 04 they average 16.2 gave up 21 03 they average 14.9 gave up 29. 01 they average 17 and gave up 17. Offense did better than their average once 10.2, worse by -15.1, -22.8, -3.3, -9.2. Take those 5 summed up and divide by 5, -8.04 Defense did better than their average 2 times 2.4 and 2.9, the exact same once, and worse by -4.8 and -14.1. Take these 5 summed up (0 once) and divide by 5, -2.72. I don't know what the sums of the averages shows, but you see the offense averaged about a TD+2 less in the 5 super bowls than their average and the defense averaged about a FG less in the 5 super bowls than their average.
The bottom line is in 4 of the 5 SBs the defense melted in a critical moment of the game, twice Brady and the O rescued them and twice he and the O didn't have enough time to rescue them.
Brady played below standard in both SB losses. I would say he played terrible in 42. He deserves the majority of the blame for those 2 losses. See. You can’t direct the blame where it belongs. His receivers were covered and there was a free blitzer. What else was he supposed to do? Throw into double coverage? Throw the ball away to stop the clock? Get real. He had no chance because the rusher came completely unblocked. What does the 99 SB have to do with the 01 SB? The Patriots defense did an AWESOME job in 36. Leading to the 17 points they had. Shutting down the Rams lethal offense! They did EVERYTHING that game and completely carried the whole Pats team while the offense did NOTHING. You didn’t watch 38 well enough. Delhomme played a great game and there’s no denying that. In 42 the Pats O played terrible all game long allowing the Giants to stay in the game. Maybe if they played for the entire game it wouldn’t have come down to the last drive. The pass was BEHIND Welker who made an incredibly difficult adjustment to the ball. In a similar play against the Eagles Welker couldn’t make the catch then either. Proving that play had a high degree of difficulty. If Brady makes a clutch throw then the game is over. He didn’t and they lost. Period. The D’s job is to not allow points. They only allowed 10. That game was on the D. I didn’t disagree with you that they didn’t play a great game, but you blamed them for the loss when that was completely incorrect. It’s a relevant point. So it’s not sad. You always blame the D.
Bottom line is that Brady benefitted from having that defense. In their 3 SB wins the defense forced 8 turnovers. In the 2 losses they only forced 1 turnover. Ever since the Patriots have relied on Brady the way the Colts rely on Manning the Patriots and Brady have not done well in the postseason.
Did anyone see that bomb he threw the last play of the super bowl? 60+ in the air when it was said and done.
Problems with the Pats' offense during 42 and 46 post seasons have been entirely 1 dimensional. Little to no run game, and in 42 focused entirely on the long ball, in 46 relied entirely on the short passing game in the middle of the field. 36, 38, and 39 had heavy reliance on the run, play action, and able to play any part of the field. The Patriots appear to be bringing that diversity back for the 2012 season with the addition of Lloyd and the return of Stallworth (if he still has anything left, he's always been a burner). Ridley looked great in 2011 when he had his chances, 80 something carries at 5.1ypc. They have also brought in a 3rd TE who is a good run blocker and 2 FBs to compete.
Brady did play below standards in both SB losses as Peyton has in nearly every postseason loss and a bunch of postseason wins for Indy but Brady left w/ the lead very late in each SB loss and the D blew it. He has to make a quicker decision and not take a sack at the 1 yd line. It was 3rd and 2 at the 9 and he lost 8 yards which set up SD at the Indy 38 to tie the game- a little different than setting up an opponent inside the 20 & 15, right? The rams clearly were not a great offense in SBs, that's what it has to do w/ it. 2 SBs 2 below standard performances by the SL O. The Pats D did so a GREAT job for 3 qtrs but games are 4 qtrs long but w/ the SB on the line they blew a 14 pt 4th qtr lead- the first and only team to do this and were lucky the O rescued them on the final drive. The D put them in a position to win and also put them in a position to lose. That's great that delhomme played great, was that on Delhomme or poor defense? Reagrdless he shredded a supposedly great defense(we know that isn't true but it's the myth of the Pats Ds) for 19 4th qtr pts and if the O didn't keep up they would have lost that game. Brady and the O in 42 were not great but they weren't terrible. The Giants D played outstanding and were harrassing Brady all game long yet he still didn't through a pick. They did struggle w/o question and underperformed but w/ the game on the line trailing 10-7 they went on an 80 yd TD drive to give their D a 4 pt lead w/ 2 1/2 mins to play. It doesn't matter where the pass was, it was catchable and dropped. It should have been caught but either way the D had NYG pinned inside their 15 yd line, even allowing a FG gives the Pats O a chance but they couldn't even hold them to a FG. The D held Bal to 10, that's great but they allowed Bal to hold onto the ball for nearly 40 minutes, our O isn't exactly a quick strike O. They could never get into a rythm against a better D. It's not relevant, one has nothing to do w/ the other. you are trying to deflect- you are better than that. Yep, a D that was worse than Indy's Ds w/ Peyton that would routinely blow late leads and struggle in January. The Pats relying on Brady w/ a bad D has resulted in a SB app, Indy won the '06 SB b/c of how great the D played in postseason and Peyton threw away the Saints SB. The '06 Colts D had a better postseason than any of Brady's Pats Ds. I love posts like this that are so wrong. In NE's 3 SB wins the D blew 4th qtr leads in 2 of them only to be rescued by the offense. In Indy's lone SB win the D scored a TD and only allowed 10 pts in the game, in their 2nd SB app Peyton threw the game ending INT for TD- has Brady ever done that? in any postseason game let alone the SB? avg. pts allowed in reg in postseason: Indy: 355, 18.7 PPG NE: 419, 19 PPG Pts allowed in SBs: Indy: 17 NE: 20.6 By the way, In Indy's SB win the D/STs forced 5 TOs In Indy's SB loss they forced ZERO
The bold, the game wouldn't have been close unless the defense held the Rams in check for 3 quarters. They led to all the Pats points in those 3 quarters also if you need to be reminded. The Pats offense did nothing for 3 quarters and 3/4 quarter. Just because they had one good drive late doesn't absolve them of all the previous chances to end the game. The played poorly compared to how the defense played. The defense gave up 17 and led to 17. They a net result of 0. The Pats offense without the defense giving them good field position, 3 poins total. The facts/stats/and almost everyone but you can see Brady's defense has dropped off from the 01-04 years, and he has not won a super bowl since. He has played 2 great games (JAX/DEN) and numerous poor ones (nyg, nyg, bal, bal, nyj, sd,) are the ones I can rattle without even thinking about them. The offense has less relied on playaction and running, and more on Brady in the same years the defense dropped. They basically turned into what the Colts were most of Peyton's career, and now you see Brady struggle. You see him struggle in the postseason like Manning did. You don't see the same Brady we saw when he had a great defense. We see what looks exactly like what Peyton Manning did a lot of postseasons. (remember Peyton Manning had fun torching Denver in the playoffs too, funny coincidence) There is no way any reasonable person would put the majority of the Super Bowls on Brady's back. The first one was defense/special teams/offense, a team win. They needed Vinateri in the snow, Brady in overtime, Bledsoe in the AFC Champ game (in case you forgot Brady didn't play most of that) and then the defense/special teams/offense in the SB. The second run, first game the defense gave up 14 points and led to patriots 7. Them and the special teams gave the ball at the TEN 40 yd line and the offense went 13 yards to set up a Vinateri game winner with 4:00 left. Not really an offensive showcase there, more defense/special teams leading the way. Second game, NE intercepted 4 passes, Vinateri kicked 5 field goals, Brady went for 237, 1td and 1 int. Had a 100 yard rusher. Then the Super Bowl the offense played very well. This run, not an offensive showcase, definitely wouldn't have won without a team effot the first two games. 1st game, Pats defense forced 3 turnovers total and one of them being in NE territory. The Pats offense went on 3 long drives in the second half icing the game, but not without help with a couple more turnovers. Next game, 4 turnovers by the Pats defense leading to 24 points. You could say the offense played well looking only at the score, but the defense clearly stepped up huge in this game. Super Bowl, defense forced 4 turnovers also. Good defense= Brady winning super bowls. So-so defense= Brady struggling like most other QB's who don't have a complete team around them. (see Peyton Manning, see Brees this year, etc etc)
a good % of games are decided in 4th qtrs, the teams that makes the plays in the 4th usually win(thgat has been especially true in Sbs the last decade or so). NE's D didn't make plays in the 4th, the O saved them so while they did play great for 3 qtrs they couldn't close it out- great D's close out games. In the '01-'04 years the "great" D's nearly blew TWO Super Bowls. Brady's postseason play has been more Peyton-like(can't say Manning-like anymore b/c Eli is a good postseason QB) in recent years but he has still made 2 SBs and left both late w/ leads. Peyton never made a SB w/ a poor defense and he wasn't getting close to SBs w/ good enough defenses. In SB losses Peyton has led his high powered O's to more than 20 pts ONCE in a 28-24 loss to SD at HOME in the div rd of '07 but 2 critical RZ INTs killed Indy that day. Overall his O's have averaged 14.2 PPG in playoff losses which include 4 home losses and SEVEN one and done's. Brady's O's have averaged 17.7 PPg in playoff losses w/ 2 home playoff losses and just two one and dones. Post '04 he's still 7-6 as a starter(Peyton is 9-10 as a starter in his career) w/ 2 SB trips(Peyton has 2 in is entire career which is 3 seasons longer than Brady's).
I realize you've established a longstanding opinion that he's overrated and that you're not a fan of Brady, and for the most part I think you know your football, but this statement is way out there. It would have taken a virtual miracle for the Patriots to win either of those SBs on their final possessions. Especially given the fact that both games were pretty low-scoring and not wide open shootout-type match-ups.
I don't see how anyone could classify the Welker drop as a "bad" throw. It wasn't perfect but it was absolutely catch-able. Welker's own words: "That's a play I make a thousand times," he said. "I just didn't make it." When asked if he was expecting the ball to be thrown over his other shoulder, Welker answered, "The ball was right there. I've got to make that play. It's a play I've made a thousand times, and at the biggest moment of my life I don't come up with it." Welker said both he and quarterback Tom Brady recognized the Giants had miscommunicated with each other on the play, which came with four minutes left in the game and the Patriots ahead 17-15. It was second-and-11 from the Giants 44-yard line, and Welker realized one defender was in Cover 2 and the other wasn't. He split the two of them and Brady fired the pass. If Welker would have caught the ball, it would have advanced the Patriots inside the red zone and put them in position to put the game away. "It's a play I never drop. Most critical situation, and I let the team down," Welker said, fighting back his emotions. The guy's been amazing for NE for five years so I'm not taking anything away from him, but there's no way that throw was so bad that he gets a pass for not coming up with it. Sorry.
Brady's a great QB. It takes more than that to win a Super Bowl. I think that kind of neatly wraps up the Pats reality at this point.
100% agreed. The Patriots' defense didn't become a liability overnight... it was a long and drawn-out process. First they didn't resign Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Asante Samuel, etc, and let them walk. Then guys like Bruschi and Harrison retired. The integral pieces left faster than they were replaced. A great QB gives any team a significant edge, but it does take more than that, you're right.
Good follow up to another good post. You have some young players on D that can perform. What caused McCourtys downturn this season? I heard potential injury in neck that limited movement and turning of the head?
I don't recall hearing about a neck injury, but it would make sense. He didn't locate the ball well at all this season which was one of his strengths as a rookie. He played much better later in the year and actually looked like a top FS (with the naked, non football expertise eye) when we played him there.
Why do keep bringing up Peyton in a Brady debate? He had a free blitzer and no one open. What other decision should he have made? Throw the ball into coverage? He had NO TIME on that play. The Rams had a great offense, but the Patriots defense did a great job shutting them down. Just like the Titans, there’s no way the defense could have nor should have been expected to shut them down for the entire game. The Patriots defense put the team in position to win by giving them a big lead. The offense had the opportunity to put an end to the game but went 3 and out multiple times, not allowing the defense to rest and giving the Rams offense more chances to put points on the board. You blame the defense for that 4th quarter when the offense was equally responsible. And adding in the fact that it was only because of the defense that they were in position to win the game I find it extremely difficult to put any ounce of blame on the defense. Delhomme played a great game and the Panthers made some great plays in the 2nd half of 38. You don’t play the game for 2 ½ minutes. You play for 60 minutes and for 57 ½ minutes the offense stunk. They severely under performed. If they hadn’t they would have gone undefeated. It does matter where the pass was. The pass was a 2 in 10 catchable pass. If Brady put the pass where it should have been we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The Pats D in 11 was not great. The team now goes as far as Brady can take them. That’s how the team is built now, and he hasn’t gotten the job done yet. During their SB run (9 total postseason games) the Pats D gave up 17 points or less in 6 games (66%). In their 3 SB wins they got 8 turnovers. Ever since the Pats got away from that and put the ball in the hands of Brady they have not won a Super Bowl. That is a fact.
