While the Jets' chances are better, that hardly excites me, Johnny. I don't like Upshaw. He's a solid OLB 3-down prospect, but not much of a pass rusher imo. I don't think he'd ever be good for more than 6-8 sacks a season. That's Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace territory. UGH. No thanks. I think that both Ingram and Perry, and quite possibly even Curry have much higher ceilings than that as pass rushers. You're also forgetting Miami. They want another OLB to pair with Wake. Since Wake is such a good pass rusher, they could easily take Upshaw to be a complimentary player to Wake. In fact, if I were a betting man I'd bet that's the way they will go.
If Tanny trades up again in or into the first round, he should be fired immediately following the completion of that pick. That would be mind-numbingly stupid. The Jets have almost zero depth and too many holes to throw away more draft picks. Trading up is a fool's game. All of Tanny's trade ups have left the cupboard bare in terms of depth and he has created holes. The insanity must stop.
my issue with the jets since ryan took over is the lack of perimeter speed. it is painfully obvious at times. while i think upshaw would improve that we STILL need a blue chip OLB to really "seal the edge". man how many times are we gonna here that as we get closer to the draft.
None of Ryan's defenses function off of perimeter speed like a 43 does. The base package is built to disguise where the pressure is coming from, not beat teams with elite skills. There is no Ware or Mario Williams in this draft. Then again we would not be picking high enough to draft one if there was. Upshaw is a very, very good all around prospect for us and i would love to land him. As an aside to that, does anyone else find it funny that a guy named joeklecko is having a hard time drafting a player as taleted and versatile as Upshaw? :wink: The problem with drafting a speed demon that only excels in that area is he becomes a liability to the rest of the defnese in other situations. Mercilus is raw and may have a higher ceeling, but would be much less effective at the start for us. Same goes for Nick Perry. I don't get the hate for a guy who has all the skills, very good size and power, more than adequate speed, and shows great football IQ.
If Adalius Thomas fresh out of college was available at 16, would you take him knowing how his career played out? Because if you did, you'd be getting a 5.3 sacks a year average. Lamarr Woodley averages 9.6, take out his statistical outlier of 13.5, and it's 6.9. James Harrison averages 6.4, take out his statistical outlier, and it's 4.6. If I exclude the years he recorded no sacks, it rises to 8.28. Aren't they moving to a 43? But the point is still accurate, they need someone opposite Wake...
Right now, no one on the Jets is getting the QB when he holds onto the ball too long (except maybe Maybin)
The Jets need to get plus players in the front seven. That and the lack of good safety play are what are holding them back right now. I'd be really happy if Upshaw wound up in Bart Scott's slot but could stay on the field for three downs on a regular basis. The defense is soft and overly reliant on smoke and mirrors. The Jets need some hammer waiting just behind the schemes or they're going to be soft when it counts.
With the rest of the Jets present D lineup? No. Thomas' sack numbers were fine in that D because they had Terrell Suggs, Ngata and others supplying pressure as well. In that day, teams ran the ball a lot more and it wasn't the passing league it is now. Whomever the Jets draft will probably be the only one that generates any consistent pressure unless Maybin can develop further than I think he can.
It's simple really. The Jets need someone who can supply consistent pressure on opposing QBs. They need more speed at LB and on the D in general. I don't think Upshaw can supply either. The draft isn't just about the 2012 season. It's about the future. I don't think the Jets are going to be ready to make a serious challenge for the SB in 2012. Tanny's trading up has created holes and stripped the team of depth. They're not going to be able to fix everything in one draft. They're gonna need at least one, if not two years before they're ready to mount a serious challenge again, so if it takes a Perry, Mercilus or Ingram a year or two to develop into a 3 down OLB, then so be it. They may be starting over again in 2013 with a new QB anyway if Sanchez doesn't put it together this year. I don't think the Jets should sacrifice what's best for the long-term future of the franchise for the short term. They've already done that too much. We've seen what having slow OLBers in Thomas and Pace does. One of the definitions of insanity is to keep doing things the same way yet expecting different results. I want the Jets to win the SB multiple times. If they are gonna do that, they need speed at the OLB position and someone who can generate consistent pressure. I don't think Upshaw is that guy. He might be a good complimentary OLB, but isn't the stud the Jets need. Hopefully, the Jets won't be drafting this high in the draft again any time soon. They usually don't get the opportunity to draft a an elite pass-rushing prospect with the speed and talent to be a terror for opposing OCs. They'd better not screw this up by taking a player who doesn't have the talent to become an elite player. If the Jets take him, so be it, but they'd better double dip and draft another OLB who has some wheels or nothing will ever improve.
Imo Burfict is an incredible incredibly unrealistic pick. We have a ton of money tied up inside, and not much of a need. Its not even worth thinking about imo
I'm not even sure why I bother arguing over Upshaw anymore, seems like anyone who is significantly against him always takes the worst case scenario(which sticks anyone defending him with the optimistic scenario) by putting him beside Thomas and Pace. Now I'll get out of the way and let some of you hunt for that nonexistent 15-20 sack a year player...
I just dont get how anyone actually thinks that a rookie will come in and be a 10-15 sack guy or how a low 40 time = no explosion or a converted DE will be able to take over OLB duties effectively out of the gate over a college 3-4 OLB or how ANYONE who actually talks about this draft thinks Upshaw is just another Bryan Thomas. Its complete ignorance. Clearly many posters who talk bad about Upshaw should learn a thing or two about OLB duties, Upshaw, and the 3-4 defense.
Imo Upshaw has to be one of the safest first round picks we could make. The guy is significantly less likely imo to be a bust than alot of the other options (ie Mericlus, alot of these wrs) and his versatility gives us the ability to be flexible going into future fa/drafts depending on where Rex sees him fit. I dont see him being a Ware/Suggs type guy, but he could surely be our next Pace, which all things aside wouldnt be terrible (well Pace under us, not the bust he was in Zona)
Who said anything about being a 10-15 sack guy as a rookie? That's your projection. Also, I'm thinking long term for this franchise, not just 2012. I think it would be criminally stupid for the Jets to take Upshaw just because he may be more ready to start and see signficant playing action in 2012, but they don't think he will ever develop into an elite pass rusher. Since you think you're so smart, how exactly will Upshaw be different/better than Thomas? As I see it, more than likely, Upshaw will be very similar to Thomas in that he will excel vs the run and setting the edge, be a solid 3 down starter, but not excel at being a pass rusher, and that's what the Jets need most of all on D. I think Ingram, Perry, Curry and maybe Mercilus all have the potential to develop into solid 3 down starters as well, but the big difference is that they will be more effective/better pass rushers. They all have the ability to be elite pass rushers. I don't think Upshaw does.
Perry and Mercilus are FAR more bust or boom than Upshaw. Ingram likely wont be available for a reason, and theres a reason Curry is a 2nd round projection. So ask me none of those guys are more viable than Upshaw
