Yes, that appears to be the case. I don't like it but I prefer that to the Yankees giving up anything more than they have already offered. Good to see they are sticking to their last best offer. I already though that adding Hughes was too much. As somebody else pointed out, what would it mean? Maybe an extra 5 wins over the year. That's about 5 million a win. Of course the playoffs are different and his value there is immense but you have to get in them before it means anything. " According to baseball officials who were aware of those talks, the Twins initially asked for pitcher Ian Kennedy, along with pitcher Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera. After being told Kennedy wasn't available if Hughes was part of the deal, the Twins apparently proposed expanding the trade into a 4-for-1 swap, with players they considered to be lesser prospects than Kennedy. But the Yankees quickly rejected that pitch, too. " They have finally seen the light. "1:09 a.m., from Jayson Stark • The Yankees' "by Monday night" deadline came and went. And Johan Santana was still a Twin when Tuesday arrived at the winter meetings. But even though the Yankees and Twins were still talking about different combinations as the night grew later and later, there was no indication that they were any closer to a deal for Santana than they were four days ago. In fact, if anything, the momentum seemed to be in the opposite direction. Officials from other clubs said several of the Yankees' baseball personnel at the meetings had begun openly questioning whether they even wanted to make this trade if the Twins said yes. "The more this goes on," said one AL executive, "the less they want to do it." " 11:44 p.m., from Jayson Stark • The Twins and Yankees are getting nowhere in their attempt to complete a deal for Johan Santana. Minnesota again asked the Yankees for pitcher Ian Kennedy as the third player in their proposed deal. The Yankees turned down that proposal immediately. They have held firm since Friday that if pitcher Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabera were part of their offer, the third player heading for Minnesota would have to be a second-tier prospect. So the highly regarded Kennedy headed a list of "untouchables" that included Joba Chamberlain, pitcher Alan Horne and outfielders Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3132311&name=winter_meetings
Now I'm excited again. As long as it's the original deal and not the one with Ellsbury, I'm a huge fan of this. I like the quote at the end... "If the Red Sox get Santana," said an executive of one NL team that's grateful to be in the other league, "they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe."
interesting note, apparently just before turning in for the night last night the twins asked for and were given Lester's medical records, and in return sent santana's to Boston
It's still either Ellsbury or Lester after they review Lester's medical records. 4 for 1 with Lester and 3 for 1 with Ellsbury.
Interesting that the Yankees no longer want this deal even if the Twins say yes now. I can only think of a few reasons that might be. A) They feel they can get Haren with less of a package B) they don't want to give any pitcher a 7 year deal at the same money they are paying Arod, especially one coming off a down year. C) They feel they can win anyway even with Santana going to the Sox.
LaVelle Neal of the minny star tribune has it as the same package as the boston globe, adn speculates the sox and Greenberg ( Santana's agent) may this morning be talking about an extension http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=285
The answer is D. Brian Cashman took back the reigns at the meetings and said "Let's not sacrifice the next decade for a couple good years." Keep in mind, even with Santana, there's a very real chance the Yankees get spanked by Boston next year. I know you keep downplaying Boston as a contender, but if ever there were a team poised for a repeat since the mid-90s, it's Boston. Like anything else, the Yankees probably weighed the pros and cons, and in the end, realized that Santana could be the worst move the team has made since trading Al Leiter for Jesse Barfield. It was a wholly lopsided trade as soon as Hughes entered the conversation. Hell, it was lopsided before that, just more acceptable. It was a bad deal in the making, and I applaud the team for flipping the Twins the bird.
hmm..that would be tampering, wouldn't it? Until they have a deal in place. Interesting I saw where Ellsbury fired his agent yesterday and hired Boras. I would think Minnesota wouldn't want any part of that and are pouring over Lester's medical records.
You're right, I just don't see it. If the Yankees had been healthy in April and May Boston doesn't even come close to winning the division. Obviously with Santana they are better but I'm not sure they make up the difference. They also remained fairly healthy last year and that is not the norm for them.
His implication was that a deal might have been struck last night, it would then go to the commissioner's office who would grant a 72 hour window to negotiate, none of that is released publicly. So you wouldn't get a trade announcement until after the contract was worked out, as it isn't official until a deal is made w/ santana regarding an extension
Maybe they win the division, maybe they don't. That's not really debatable, since what happened, happened. However, had we won the division, we'd have played the Angels. Let's be honest, we were all partying when we were certain we'd play Cleveland. That didn't work out so well did it? Boston, on the other hand, beat both LAA and Cleveland. Boston would have been in the playoffs, whether they won the division or not. So the fact is, they would have won the World Series either way. They are going into '08 just as strong, and with Santana, are even stronger. Think about this, if Boston gets Santana, they replace Lester with Johan. They sacrifice Ellsbury, but have Crisp. Anyone else they throw into the deal wasn't playing this year for the pro club anyway. On the other hand, if the Yankees make the trade, they lose probably Hughes, who has the potential to be an ace. That's about even, since Santana is an ace now. You lose the future for today. However, they would also sacrifice Melky, thereby putting Damon in center, and Matsui in left. That's a huge tailoff in talent defensively. Add in another player who does have a shot at the pro squad this year, perhaps even Kennedy, and you have a far weaker Yankees club. The Sox are poised for a return to the dance. I like to homer too, but come on, sometimes, you just have to be honest with yourself. Boston and the Yankees will both be in the playoffs next year. It's just a matter of who gets the division title. After that, Boston has the advantage in the pitching department, with or without Santana. Santana pushes them way over the top though.
Wow, that is speculating as they didn't even get the medical records until after the meeting broke up and if there was even a tentative deal that would leak in about 3 seconds with all the people covering these meetings.
I wasn't. Cleveland had two good starters and the Angels were no threat to anybody last year. I'm not sure if the runnerup in AL east makes the playoffs next year at all. Detroit will be back. Minnesota with all this new talent and Liriano could make a push. LA with Cabrera and Hunter will be stronger then ever and who knows what else happens in the west. Seattle was strong most of this year as we well know. There are no givens on next year at all.
I assure you, regardless of who wins the Santana sweepstakes, the AL East will send two teams to October. It's only a matter of who wins the division at this point.
ugh..this seems to say the Yankees may still be the favorite. I hope not and I really hope we make a deal for Haren or Bedard before this can even happen. It also seems to say they now want Lester over Ellsbury. Wonder how much his hiring of Boras yesterday has to do with that. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/04/santana.update/index.html
Almost none I am sure, Ellsbury has almost no service time, so he has 3 years plus 3 years of arbitration before Boras gets to negotiate a deal. You don't worry about possible contract problems 6 years ahead of time when making a deal they wanted both earlier in the week as they wanted hughes and kennedy, they seem to prefer Crisp and Lester to Elsbury and a lesser pitcher. Edit- also that article is 9 hours old, published before the red sox and twins met and before the exchange of medical files.
