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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Acad23, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    once again false narrative. You think aaron donald has less of an impact on a game then von miller? Also what can and edge rusher do without an interior push? QB can just step up or you can just run it up the middle all game. thats why gameplans are a thing.
     
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  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Again, "straw man". Who said that there would NO interior pass rush? Having a stud edge rusher, with even an average interior pass rush produces pressure and sacks. Citing an anomaly like Donald actually underscores how rare an interior DL achieves that kind of success.

    Macc was so bad, I wonder if he even understood the game of football.
     
  3. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    it's not just donald. flecther cox, chris jones, suh in his heyday, haynesworth in his heyday, warren sapp. a dominant interior lineman fucks up the QB just as much if not more then a dominant edge rusher. Broncos have 2 of the best edge rushers in the NFL (chubb and miller) and haven't done squat and now chubb is out. Gameplanning is taking away the other teams best players. an elite edge rusher will be double and tripled teamed all game and other people need to make plays. everything is connected in football. Teams will know your weakness and exploit it. adding a stud edge rusher doesn't fix everything
     
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  4. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Most of the sacks were on Falk
     
  5. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Deshaun Watson has a worse Ol than the Jets.
     
  6. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    his o-line is pretty bad but don't forget they drafted a RT in the 1st round this year and they traded 2 1st rounders for tunsil this year as well so right now they have 3 1st rounders invested in their 2 tackle spots.
     
  7. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

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    3-4 DEFENSIVE LINEMEN ARE A WASTE OF PREMIUM PICKS. DONT DRAFT 3-4 DL UNTIL DAY 3. ADDRESS 3-4 DL IN FA.
     
  8. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    yes because vernon gholston is a way better pick then aaron donald /s
     
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  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    As you probably expected, I couldn't possibly disagree more. To begin with few GMs have any previous experience as GMs.

    Secondly, and most importantly, Mac's resume is not better. That's just laughable. He may have have more impressive "titles" and worked for more organizations, but Douglas worked his way up through the ranks of the Ravens organization and learned from one of the best GMs of our generation, if not in the history of the NFL, in Ozzie Newsome. He also worked for two other NFL teams that draft well (Bears and Eagles), are well run, and helped build a SB winner (Eagles). That certainly trumps the World League of American Football, the Saskatchewan Rough Riders, the Redskin and Texans. The Houston Texans didn't really start winning consistently until they got rid of Mac. Mac was coordinator of college scouting from 2000-2010, assist. dir. of college scouting 2010-2011, and director of college scouting from 2011-2014. The Texans records during those years? See below

    2002 - 4-12
    2003 - 5-11
    2004 - 7-9
    2005 - 2-14
    2006 - 6-10
    2007 - 8-8
    2008 - 8-8
    2009 - 9-7
    2010 - 6-10
    2011 - 10-6
    2012 - 12-4
    2013 - 2-14
    2014 - 9-7

    After Mac left
    2015 - 9-7
    2016 - 9-7
    2017 - 4-12
    2018 - 11-5

    In the two seasons before Mac worked for the Saskatchewan Rough Riders as Director of Scouting, they were 9-9 and 11-7. In 1994, his only season with the team, they were again 11-7. The following season, 1995, they were 6-12, and in 1996, they were 5-13, so if anything, it looked like he may have hurt, rather than helped them. When Mac was an intern for the Redskins, Charley Casserly was the GM (1989-1999). You must have a lot more respect for Casserly's talent acumen than I do.

    Douglas is highly respected around the NFL. Word has it that if the Jets hadn't expressed interest in Mac, the Texans were going to fire him. There is no comparison between the two, and to try to make one is just dumb.

    Douglas could certainly prove to be just as bad as Mac, but his pedigree is infinitely better.
     
  10. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    that's what a resume is as i said on paper mac had more experience and they both had the same position and neither had any experience as a GM.

    as far as the other stuff it makes no sense. a scout has 0 effect on a teams record. they don't have final say in draft picks, they don't coach players. then you have nothing but rumors and chatter with no proof of anything. As far as who he learned from again it means nothing. al groh learned from bill parcells just like bellichick did yet groh was/is a shit coach and bellichick is one of the best. then look at all the coaches that learned form bellichick including mangini for us who all failed as a HC. it's meaningless every person is different and even with the best teacher you can fail and even with the worse teacher you can succeed. I get liking JD, i like him too and have high hopes. I'm saying objectively speaking on paper mac was more qualified then JD to take over as a GM and he won the NFL GM award his 1st season here and 1st season as a GM. and he took over a pretty poor roster and with a draft class of 12 picks from the previous GM, 11 of which were busts and the 12th sadly too injury prone and likely career over right now. JD is taking over a much better team then what mac took over.
     
  11. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    lol no, I meant your jinxing of the situation :eek:
     
  12. HerndonFan

    HerndonFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    More experience doesn't mean it was good experience.

    If Douglas was taking over a much better team than they wouldn't have gone 4-12 last year, just like they did the year before Macc was hired as GM. The roster still has deficiencies at CB, Edge, OL, and WR. The Edge prospect taken this year is already on his third team.
     
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  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Douglas has a better roster? ROFLMAO

    Let's compare the 2015 and 2019 rosters.

    2015
    QB - Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith & Bryce Petty
    RB - Chris Ivory, Bilal Powell, Stevan Ridley & Tommy Bohannon
    WR - Eric Decker, Brandon Marshall, Quincy Enunway, Jeremy Kerley, & Kenbrel Thompkins
    TE - Jeff Cumberland & Kellen Davis
    OL - Brick, James Carpenter, Nick Mangold, Brian Winters, Breno Giacomini, Ben Ijalana, Dakota Dozier, Brent Qvale, & Wesley Johnson

    DE - Mohammed Wilkerson, Leon Williams, Leger Douzable, Mike Catapano, Steven Bowen
    DT - Damon Harrison, Sheldon Richardson
    ILB - David Harris, Demario Davis, Erin Henderson, Jamari Lattimore, & Taiwan Jones
    OLB - Calvin Pace, Lorenzo Mauldin, Josh Martin, & Trevor Riley
    CB - Darelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Buster Skrine, Dexter McDougle, Darrin Walls, & Marcus Williams
    S - Calvin Pryor, Marcus Gilchrist, Rontez Miles, & Dion Bailey

    K - Randy Bullock
    P - Ryan Quigley
    LS - Tanner Purdum

    2019
    QB - Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, Luke Falk
    RB - Le'Veon Bell, Ty Montgomery, Bilal Powell, & Trenton Cannon
    WR - Robby Anderson, Quincy Enunwa, Jamison Crowder, Josh Bellamy,
    TE - Chris Herndon, Ryan Griffin, Daniel Brown & Trevon Wesco
    OL - Kelvin Beacham, Kelechi Osemele, Ryan Kalil, Brian Winters, Brandon Shell, Jonotthan Harrison, Alex Lewis, Tom Compton, Chuma Edoga, & Conor McDermott

    DE - Leon Williams, Henry Anderson, Nathan Shepard, John Franklin-Meyers & Jordan Willis
    DT - Steve McLendon, Quincy Williams, Folorunso Fatukasi
    ILB - Avery Williamson, CJ Mosley, Neville Hewitt, Blake Cashman
    OLB - Jordan Jenkins, Brandon Copeland, Tarrell Basham, Frankie Luvu, & Harvey Langi
    CB - Trumaine Johnson, Daryl Roberts, Brian Poole, Nate Hairston, & Arthur Maulet
    S - Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Rontez Miles, Matthias Farley

    K - Sam Ficken
    P - Lachlan Edwards
    LS - Thomas Hennessy

    2015 gets the edge at QB, WR, OL, DE, DT, CB & K

    2019 gets the edge at RB, TE, ILB, OLB, S, & P

    LS is a wash

    The 2015 roster set Jets records for offensive success. The 2019 roster is going to struggle to not set records for futility

    The 2015 D may have been better or about the same as 2019

    I think the edge goes to 2015
     
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  14. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    true but on a resume that's how it works. a potential hiring company isn't going to know. they will check references but references always speak positive about their employees that's the point. Mac had good references just like JD. haven't you ever hired anyone before? NFL teams are a business just like any other. resume, references, interviews etc. if you look on paper mac's resume was better then JDs

    and yes JD is taking over a better team. our team when mac took over was a mess. no QB meanwhile JD has a 3rd overall pick FQB in year 2 of his rookie deal. Mac had a team of 12 players drafted the year before he took over, 11 of which were busts. Now we don't know how many busts we have from the 2019 draft but already at least cashman is contributing and looking good. so even if Q winds up being decent he's ahead of the game. we are also a very young team. mac took over an old team. and the only bad contract we have right now is trumaine. Nobody is saying our roster doesn't have holes, every NFL roster has holes. but we aren't the dumpster fire we were when mac took over and no jets GM has had a worse draft then idzik did that year prior
     
  15. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    What this proves is that resume isnt everything & there is no one right or wrong path when it comes to being a GM.

    But look at the drastic differences in philosophy from the onset. Compare Mac always saying that scheme didnt matter & side stepping critical personnel related questions putting it on the coach w. Douglas who has a clear vision of building up front w the right people & breaking the opponents wills.JD also spoke to being in tune w the HC & determining what a Jet looks like & drafting to it. Coincidentally hes been lauded as a great communicator at all levels..w Mac it clearly depended on who you asked about communication..Coaching staff?HC?Not so much

    MAC & Douglas resume are likely pretty close but when looking at the context & laying out their philosophies/skilllsets side by side ill take Joe Douglas everytime.Mac was BPA put scheme & all the questions after the fact on the coach from the very onset.He didnt have the eye for talent to justify it like say AJ Smith w the Chargers.
     
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  16. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    See underlined for 2015 explanation on what you are wrong about. in short all you did is basically praise mac. He gave us 11 new starters via the draft and FA and resignigns to take a 4-12 team to 10-6 in one offseason. You are saying he took over a better roster but it's the roster he built. all of our best players save mangold, brick, and wilkerson were added by mac not inherited by mac. he added half our starters in 1 offseason. Mind you JD hasn't had an offseason yet but the point was who took over a better roster and it is in no doubt JD did

    so here is how it really shakes up

    QB darnold vs geno - goes to JD
    RB bell and ty vs nobody goes to JD
    WR robby, Q, crowder vs Q kerley and thompkins goes to JD
    O-line Goes to mac our o-line is a mess and mac got brick and mangold
    TE cumberland and davis vs herndon, wesco, and griffin - goes to JD
    Dline - wilk, harrison and bums vs Q, leo, mclendon, anderson - goes to JD
    ILB harris and davis vs mosely, williamson, hewitt, and chasmand - goes to JD
    OLB - pace and bums vs jenkins , copeland, and young guys with potential goes to JD
    CB - tru, roberts, and poole vs mcdougle, walls, and williams - goes to JD
    S pryor vs adams and maye - goes to JD

    in short JD has a better roster everywhere with the 1 exception of o-line which he has no commitment to at all. 3 are free agents and the other 2 can be released with no cap penalty after 2019. he also has a lot of young talent on rookie deals like adams, maye, herndon, and of course a FQB on his rookie deal in darnold. All the bets players mac had were old and aging. the only bad contract JD has to inherit is trumaine.
     
  17. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree resume isn't everything and finding a good GM is not an easy task for any team. and i like JD alot. none of that was the point. the point was on paper mac was more qualified then JD. people here sound like we hired mac when he flipping burgers for a living. mac was just as good of a GM prospect as JD. obviously i hope JD does better and he is saying all the right things. but actions speak louder then words.
     
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  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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  19. forevercursed

    forevercursed Well-Known Member

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    Can't get rid of no impact Leonard Williams fast enough.

    I would absolutely be open to trading Bell...though the return will not be all that impressive. But we really REALLY need to start rebuilding that line.
     
  20. Adamsthebeast

    Adamsthebeast Well-Known Member

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    Come on those are extreme outliers on both sides. Also if Quinnen is anything like his draft pedigree then between him and Anderson, we can easily grab another piece in free agency and have a good defensive line. If they draft another interior guy earlier than the 4th round I will throw my remote this year.
     

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