Wilk's agents can point to Watt and Dareus, making 16.7M and 15.8M, respectively. The Jets can point to Calais Campbell and Cameron Jordan each at 11M. The market for Wilk is really right in between, 14M, which is exactly what Malik Jackson just got. We have no way of knowing what the Jets are actually offering, or what Wilk's bottom line is. I'm hoping we can sign him in that 14M market before the tag price gets locked in for the year.
It is an outside rushers game to an extent, but I still believe in having a good two way interior player and an outside pass rush to compliment. The Broncos had 2 good interior players to compliment the outside. While Robert Mathis / Freeney and all of those other rushers were excellent in their hay-day, they always had issues stopping the run, specifically the Colts of the Manning era. Jared Allen had Pat and Kevin Williams on the inside. Justin Houston has help from one of the best 2 way NTs in the league in Poe. Of course having that elite outside guy trumps everything, but we don't have that guy on our roster yet. I also believe in the fact that retaining Mo would not stop us from resigning Pryor and Maudlin years down the road as long as the contract is front-loaded. Realistically, you can't pay everyone, but I think the Jets need to pay the players that make everyone else better and I think that's what Mo brings to the table in terms of taking double teams and moving around the defensive line. That specific skill-set is not found on the stat-sheet. I don't want to pay Mo an absurd amount either, but the market has dictated that, so I guess it's in the best interest to take what they can get now and get the cap in better shape for this specific season, or get that long term deal signed and be creative with the extension. Our cap issues now is just for this year, next year we have plenty of more space. I still believe the Jets need to find a way to keep Mo under contract going forward. He's not the type that is reliant on athleticism, so I see him as a player that will age just fine.
I agree with much of what you said and I'm not dismissing any of it as if the outside rushers do it all by themselves. However I do not think any of those teams would keep Poe in place of Houston, or Wolfe/Jackson in place of Miller/Ware. It's a lot easier to develop a nose tackle or 3-4 end than it is to develop a pass rushing outside linebacker. There's a reason there's what 13 3-4 teams and 6-8 "elite" 3-4 defensive ends vs. A couple elite pass rushers. I wouldn't pay an elite 3-4 end unless they're Watt-like. It has long been a throw away position in the defense and only recently has become a position that makes big money and produces. Not once in watching the Jets in Mo's tenure have I seen the pass rush reallllly take over a game. Maybe a couple times. I just hope whatever we get for him is substantial in comparison to what a player like him gets paid.
Rich Cimini @RichCimini Woody Johnson on inability to sign Mo: "It's amazing since we've been negotiating with him for a few years now." #nyj
This is true about developing players, much harder to find that blue chip pass rusher. As for calling Mo just another "3-4 DE" I think that's an insult. Mo is a match-up nightmare and isn't just a 3-4 DE that cannot rush the passer. His ability extends beyond that. I think this position has become more important as the years have gone on. No longer are the best 3-4 DEs just players that stop the run and eat up blockers. Some generate pressure and get to the QB. A crazy stat that I found on twitter the other day, Mo had more sacks last season (12) than any 300-pounder since Warren Sapp in 2000! Imagine pairing him up with a special edge rusher? I've seen Mo take over a game several times. Eagles game, Titans game, both Bills games and Giant game comes to mind where Mo dominated. I hope we keep him because he's essential to our success, but I highly doubt we get anything special for him back if he is gone. I pray he doesn't go to a team like the Raiders. I hope we find another edge rusher w/ Mo still here, I guess we'll find out.
I think you marginalizing 3-4 lineman quite a bit. not all 3-4 guys are 2 gap pluggers. Bruce Smith, Leonard Marshall, Howie Long, Reggie White, Neil Smith, Haloti Ngata, Richard Seymour, JJ Watt.......our very own Shaun Ellis and Joe Klecko... versatile guys like these have long been impact 2 way players. they stay on the field all downs, can be moved around the line, and produce in just about any game situation. it's nothing new really. Lineman like these have made a big impact on the success of their overall D.
how many great d linemen do the jets really need? not as many as they had last year is the real answer. to have 4 guys who will at some point in the next few years command top dollar is silly. to have snacks counting at between 6 and 10 million against the cap, mo i dont know another 11 million, richardson coming up on free agency in what 2017 so mark him up for 8 million per. no lets make it 11 million per? and leonard williams coming up in 2019. imagine what that salary cap would look like with 35 million tied up in dl. and one of them playing olb because there was no space for him. its about making smart decisions, mo wilkerson is a great player. so are the 2 guys that would be left if he leaves and that will help the team tremendously. unless you have no interest in resigning richardson who is much more versatile.
Mo is more valuable than Richardson because Richardson will miss games this year and is one slip up from a yearlong ban. If we can extend Mo, I would do so and then trade Richardson/let him walk in a year from now if necessary.
It sends the wrong message as well. To let the player whom has 0 off the field issues go and extend the guy that is 1 toke away from a 1 year ban. I don't think any talk with Richardson should transpire until after his option in 2018.
Snacks is gone. I'm not interested in re-signing Sheldon to big bucks. Too risky and likely too costly. Williams won't need any reworking until Mo is 30, which may be perfect timing. Mo is the guy I'd invest in.
That's the main reason I'm adamant about letting Wilk go. Shel is already going to likely miss some games for the upcoming season. Look at guys like Josh Gordon, Martavis Bryant, Justin Blackmon, etc. If Shel had the character of Mo and Leo, I would be alright with trading Mo. However, att this point, I can't support that.
We have to lock up Mo though. IMO it's only worth forgoing the trade value we can get if we aren't going to lose him in a year.
Not really,Fitz will be signed eventually......Its obvious its just gonna be a standoff waiting game but he will 100% be back.There's nothing to talk about with Mo its highly unlikey he is gonna be traded unless the offer is to good to turn down.
I wasn't trying to degrade him as a player, or mark him down as 'just another 3-4 DE.' However, a defense can be run successfully with atypical ends that just stuff the run. If we didn't sign Revis to that terrible contract, Mo would be good and resigned and this wouldn't even be a discussion. I don't think he's necessarily worth the money we would've re-signed him for, but I would've been at ease giving a 26 year old defensive lineman a lucrative contract (a lot moreso than a 31 year old corner). I'll always error on the side of signing someone who can generate sacks than coverage players. I understand Richardson's potential suspension looming, but I also look at it as how irreplaceable is Wilkerson? We have 3 legitimate 3-4 defensive ends on the roster now, outside of Mo. Not to mention, I have my doubts about him continuing to put up double digit sack seasons. I just look at him and our pass rush and rarely have I seen him destroy a pocket from the start of the play. He's very savy and knows how to get to the quarterback after he's been engaged and blocked decently. I just don't put him in the same class as pocket collapsars like Watt & Suh, meanwhile he will command that contract. Maybe I'm playing devils advocate to an extent. I just remember when we actually had legit pass rushers in Abraham/Ellis on either side and I remember the pass rush being a lot better than this pass rush has been. I wish we weren't in the conundrum we were in, but that's what has happened thanks to the flashy signing of Revis. I understand Mac doesn't want to compromise the future by restructuring the veterans, but would restructuring Decker/Marshall/Skrine really inhibit our salary cap space next year? They're all going to be on the roster for another couple years, and the only question mark on his future past the end of next season is Marshall (and I think he continues to play at a high level for at least two years). He doesn't want to push Mangold and Brick's cap hit down the road for the right reasons. Brick declined, and Mangold is due to start declining. But the other guys seem like prime restructuring candidates to create space.
I kind of see both issues the other way at this point. Fitzpatrick is less likely to return with each week that passes. Circumstances are constantly changing both with the Jets and on the other teams around the league. The odds are that Fitzpatrick's value to teams will be incrementally changing also and also that the Jets will eventually feel compelled to cover the position in some other way for 2016. On Mo, I'm guessing the Jets are just looking for an acceptable offer at this point that lets them move Mo. It's complicated, since a team has to negotiate a deal with Mo and then the Jets and the team have to reach an acceptable deal on the compensation. There are also the unfiled free agent contracts which will have to be filed sooner or later and which will probably require either a Mo trade or a restructuring/cut somewhere else. It gotta be a frustrating time for the FO right now. They're dealing with two players with whom they don't see eye to eye on salary and a lot of other decisions are dependent on the status of those two deals. I'm guessing that Fitzpatrick's leverage is declining steadily due to the fact that the Jets are going to have to make moves no matter what and the longer he stays unsigned the more likely he's not part of the plan that emerges.
We might wind up getting the the 1st or 2nd pick of the 2nd round though. Both Cleveland and Tennessee have the cap space, the need for an interior lineman and both teams are looking to improve their defense with an impact player at this point. It's complicated, because a deal probably has to be in place between the team and Mo before any trade was made and so the deal cannot wait until the team is on the clock during the draft so the Jets can see who is available. The footwork for that kind of deal has to have been done between Mo and the team before the draft to make it possible. The deal has to be worked out with Mo because neither team is likely to trade the pick without knowing they have Mo locked up. If that happens you might well see the Jets get that high 2nd round pick plus a swap of 4th round picks to make up the difference and give the Jets the equivalent of a late 1st round pick back for Mo, similar to what they got for JAbe.
If we could lock Mo up to a fair deal, or atleast one that has a few million less in base salary the first year but a larger signing bonus we could lower his cap hit this year. It's risky and not ideal but we are strapped for cash. That could free up a few million. Also we could trade Sheldon in that case and free up some more room. That's how I got it done on cap calculator. Brick would have to play for around 3-4 million or we are moving on. I gave Fitz a two year deal as well.
