The problem with this analysis is that even in this era it doesn't take a great QB to win an NFL championship. The Giants have won two recently with just a good QB at the helm. The Steelers have won two with a very good QB at the helm. The biggest single factor in winning an NFL championship is still the organization more than any individual position on the field. That's why teams that win Super Bowls tend to be teams that have won multiple Super Bowls in the past. The thing that brought the Patriots three championships in four years was not Tom Brady. He was a huge contributing factor but the thing that won them those championships was that they had the best organization in the NFL for that short period of time. They also cheated and bent the rules, but that was the organization looking for every edge that it could find. Then Scott Pioli left town and Tom Brady became one of the greatest QB's of all time and the Pats haven't won a championship in 7 years now. The organization was the most important factor in their wins. Tom Brady can't win championships in the absence of that great organization. The reason the Colts only won a single championship wasn't that they didn't have a great QB. The reason they didn't win more rings was because the organization wasn't good enough to do that. There were always holes somewhere on the roster that held them back and they were built to win on the rug in the dome not in the cold in the northeast. The Colts were built to fail at the end and they did so with amazing consistency.
U have hit the nail on the head. Once Hess ejected Wberlin for signing JWN without Hesses approval the NYJs have been one of the most inept, bumbling, stumbling NFL franchises in the NFL. That inept, bumbling/stumbling has been going on now for 43 years & still counting:sad:
the greatest thing about the Pats is their consistency. There are always about 5 -7 very good teams every year who have a good chance to win a Superbowl if things fall their way. The beauty of the Pats is that EVERY single year since 2001 the Pats have been in the playoff contention on the last day of the regular season. And the only 2 years they didn't get in, they lost on tie breakers, including an 11 win season. Its not easy to win ANY game in the NFL - you have to be good, but you also have to have a bit of luck with injuries, calls, and bounces of the ball to navigate the land mines of an NFL season. I take pride in that consistency, and its a credit to the ownership and Bob Kraft. Who took over a 2-14 team and in the 18 years he's owned the team, fans have suffered only 3 losing seasons, and 2 of those came in the first 3 years. To say Pats fans are spoiled is an understatement. :wink: BTW- earlier in this thread or the D'brick restructure thread, I asked if anyone knew if the potential carry over number has been included in cap numbers that are being published by the various cap gurus, or if that will come into play later on. Still looking for an answer to that one. Thanks
The Pats have depended on Brady lately to make the playoffs. I think when he goes the consistency that the Pats have shown goes also. Think Steve Young retiring in San Francisco for a view into what the Pats future looks like a few years out.
How can you say that when in a year where Brady missed an entire season, playing a QB who hadn't started a game in 8 years, won 11 games, Granted that when Brady retires in 3-5 years, whomever replaces him is very likely to be a down grade. How can it not be a down grade when you replace one of the top 5 QBs who ever played the game. That being said, when that day comes, the Pats will STILL be a very well coached, talented, and competitive team. And while the QB is unlikely to be a future HOFer, he will be a competent disciplined productive player.
Just like Jeff Garcia was. The Pats are nowhere near as good as the team that won 11 games in 2008 with Brady on the sidelines. That team still had Teddy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel and Richard Seymour and Ty Warren. They still had Scott Pioli's guys on the defensive side of the ball. When Brady goes the Pats will drop to 8-8 instantly. They may recover back to 10 wins for a season after that and a playoff spot but it's going to be short-lived. No dynasty in NFL history has survived the permanent loss of the their great QB except for the 49ers and that was a very flukey situation pre-cap, where the 49ers had one of the greatest QB's ever as their starter and one of the most highly regarded backups ever sitting behind him.
I hear what you're saying and don't totally disagree, but the thing is, I have to agree somewhat with patfanken too, because Kraft is one of the best owners in the game. He's smart. He hasn't done a good job replacing Pioli, but great GMs don't grow on trees. Even though they haven't done a good job with whom they actually draft recently, they still have done a magnificent job acquiring picks. If they ever start hitting on 50-60& of those picks, the rest of the NFL can forget about it for a while. They'll drop back some when Brady retires, but I'll bet Belichick and Kraft will have rebuilt the D by that time and they don't have a slouch at backup QB now. Good organizations stay good over time for a while. Look at the Steelers. Look at the Ravens and the Packers over the last 10+ years. Look at the stability Kevin Colbert has given the Steelers and Ozzie Newsome the Ravens. After Ron Wolf retired in GB, I can't remember if they had a smooth transition or stumbled for a few years, but they now have a great FO and CS again. Losing a star QB hurts, but what hurts more is losing your organization (FO and CS). IMO, what hurt the 49ers more than losing Montana and Young was losing Walsh, and possibly some of the FO and scouting staff as well.
The 49ers lost Walsh in 1990. They won the Super Bowl 5 years after he retired and made the playoffs in 8 of the 9 years after his retirement. What cost them their dominance at the championship level is really simple: The Dallas Cowboys. The dynasty went on but it ran into a buzzsaw that chewed it up. The thing that has hurt the Patriots is not running into a better dynasty. The Giants have actually been a decent team that peaked at just the right time twice now. The Steelers have won two titles since the Pats last title also but it's a fact that the Steelers didn't face the Patriots in the playoffs in either of their Super Bowl seasons. In fact the Steelers and the Patriots have not faced each other in the playoffs since 2004 when the Patriots beat them and ended a magnificent run that year. What has killed the Patriots is their defense has collapsed and is no longer championship caliber and believe it or not that collapse is related directly to the Patriots inability to replace the players that Pioli found for them as VP of Player Personnel from 2001 onwards.
gotta replace 34 y.o. wr with a 34 y.o. wr i guess the upside is wayne is a professional that understands how to get seperation without having the best quickness.i wouldn't be overly excited about it but it wouldn't be a terrible move either
Don't let a 1 year sample size prove your point that you can still be an elite team without Brady. Also keep in mind that year NE had a top 10 defense, something it doesn't look like they're close to attaining for a couple years.
Have you seen your defense? The 2008 team had a great defense and a decent quarterback and missed the playoffs. The defense now is nothing like it was in 2007 and 2008.
Polian does make sense. We do have two receivers in Holmes and Kerley who are very fast. Wayne, if he could get more separation than Plaxico could be a good pickup.
reggie caught 75 passes for almost 1000 yards last year, even though the colts had by far the worst qb in the league for most of the season (curtis painter). smaller guys tend to age a little better, and while he's the same age as plax, obviously he's in much better football shape. wouldn't be crazy about the signing, but it could have big upside. he likely won't be commanding top dollar in a crowded WR market, so maybe we could sign him to a reasonable deal and still draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd. the guy has great hands and knows how to get open, two attributes our skill players were lacking last year.
Wayne is a veteran who has still played well. He's also a leader who could keep Santonio and Mark in check. Not saying I want to break the bank for Reggie but I would give him a 1 or 2 year deal for a few million.
Its being reported that the Packers are not expected to try to tag and trade Flynn so he will be a true UFA. If Philbin makes no real efforts to take him to Miami that should be a real flag to other interested teams.
depends, if Miami is all in on Manning and somebody else (washington perhaps?) puts the full court press on flynn, that wouldnt be a shock to me.
