It's a bit unfair to hold QBs directly accountable for fumbles, since most of them come when they are blindsided by an unblocked or poorly blocked pass rusher. Just to humor you though: Manning's/Brady's career stats (per year): 4249/4066 yards 31.1/30.4 touchdowns 18.2/18.4 turnovers 11.1/12.3 wins You still can't say that Manning was anything more than marginally better based on those numbers. We are talking about a difference of 11 yards per game, and less than one TD difference over an entire season. Total turnovers are almost identical and Brady won an extra game per season. I'm not trying to say that Brady was better statistically from 2001-2006. Peyton definitely had better numbers those years, but Brady had three Super Bowl wins and he has since closed the statistical gap to the point where it is nearly non-existent (as the numbers above show). Brady had a better defense and better coaching, but that isn't why he won Super Bowls and Manning didn't (until 2006). Manning's defense and/or teammates never lost him a playoff game. He simply didn't play well enough, despite having elite talent around him on offense, like Harrison, Wayne, Edgerrin James, Dallas Clark, etc. 1999: Lost to the Titans. Threw for 0 TDs and 227 yards 2000: Lost to Miami. Threw 1 TD, less than 200 yards total 2001: Threw almost as many picks as TDs and missed the playoffs 2002: Lost to the Jets. Threw 0 TDs and 2 INTs and led his offense to ZERO points 2003: Lost to NE throwing 4 INTs to only 1 TD 2004: Lost to the Patriots again. Led his offense to only 3 points, threw 0 TDs and 1 INT 2005: Lost to the Steelers. Threw 1 TD, 290 yards. Look that over for a second... he never threw for more than a single TD in the playoff games that he lost, and in half of them he didn't even manage that. His best performance in a playoff loss was a game where he scored one touchdown and 0 interceptions, and you are going to blame his coaching and teammates for his lack of Super Bowls?
1999 Ten: had a ton of garbage time yds and led a garbage time TD to make it look closer than it was. 2000 Mia: against legendary choking D led Indy to 3 pts in last 3 qtrs. in OT loss at Miami(Jay Fiedler's only playoff win). 2002: led O to ZERO pts, that is all we need to know. 2003: 4 INTs, Indy complains to league about them mugging WRs... 2004: after rules changed leads high powered O to THREE pts in div rd loss 2005: It's not the yardage or TDs that were the problem, he was given multiple gifts to stay in game. Everyone talks about the Brady tuck rule game (which was the correct ruling on a bad rule) but they overturned an obvious INT to give Peyton another shot or the game would have been over then after failing on downs deep in Indy territory late in the game Pitt fumbled back and indy returned to midfield and he still couldn't get the game to OT let alone win it. 2007: throws 2 RZ INTs in 4 pt loss 2008: facing 8-8 team leads O to 7 ots in 2nd half. Needed one 1st down to end game late in regulation and takes sack at Indy 1 setting up SDs game tying FG. 2009: throws SUPER BOWL ending INT for TD 2010: needing one 1st down to ensure AV would kick GW FG w/ no time left he fails setting up t50+ yd attempt and leaving Sanchez and co. less than a minute to come back which they did when mark set up a chip shot for the winner. 2012: STs scores TWO TDs for him and he still couldn't win, had 2 possessions needing FG to win in OT after coach had no faith in him to take a chance at the end of regulation.
I hear ya, I actually noted the 11-win 2008 season at the end of my post. I knew it'd come up. That was a strange season, and one where you would have had to watch every game to really understand that. Cassel did a good job and that carried over for the first season or two in KC (I think he made the Pro Bowl in 2010). But they scraped out those 11 wins and benefited from a really soft schedule. AFC West (at the time it was very weak) and NFC West (also a weak division back in '08). I know it's cliche, but Brady is a winner. That's the most important thing to me when evaluating QBs. Rodgers is too, and he's a whole lot younger, and right now if I'm starting a team I'd take him due to age. But if I could have any QB in their prime, it'd be Brady. (He's probably still in his prime, but the clock's ticking...)
Mark Sanchez has more playoff wins than Boomer Esiason, Drew Bledsoe, Warren Moon, Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington, Randall Cunningham, etc. It's not that being a 'winnner' is cliche. It's just overly simplistic. To me, Brady is great for multiple reasons. The first is anecdotal, having watched him play I simply know he's a cut above 90% of the QB's in the 5 years. The second is statistically it's valid to say he's great. The numbers back him up, he's put up the single most impressive season as a QB. The third reason is he's won consistently in the regular season. The fourth is when he was given exceptional tools he performed exceptionally. The fifth is when he loses in the playoffs, it's usually because he runs into a damn good team. I do think it's fair to question if he was 'elite' early in his career and he just couldn't show it because of the players around him, or if he simply got better as the years went by (and maybe once the Patriots switched OCs and switched to a more pass oriented offense). Watching Brady with Moss in 2007 was a treat as a football fan, just like watching Peyton Manning run an offense.
Good points all around. Brady has had a very unique career. He wins Super Bowls in three of his first four years as a starter... that's like winning three huge hands in a poker game right off the bat. He's been playing with house money for most of his career, it seems. I don't think he was elite from a statistical standpoint early on, but those two SB-MVP awards really provided the foundation for a HOF career. At that point, he would have had to screw things up big-time to not get in. As it stands, he's earned more personal accolades (two MVPs, etc) than team accolades in the more recent years.
If his career ends tomorrow he gets in. I don't see any way for Brady or Peyton Manning to not get into the HoF other than if they pull a Hernandez.
