He was an absolute choker and some do consider him top 10 of all time. No QB wins every January but the best win more often than they lose at the very least(most win MUCH more than they lose). it would be one thing if he didn't have the talent around him but he's had SB caliber talent almost since day 1 and he's under .500 as a starting QB in postseason.
Steve Young was 8-6 as a playoff QB. Marino 8-9 Kelly 9-8 Favre 13-11 What is your criteria for great? Or is it Brady and then that's it? 3 of those 4 won more than they lost. Marino wasn't an all time great? Was Jim Kelly a choker? Your criteria changes for every player, every team, every season. There's no consistency.
Those guys are deserving HOFers, none are among the top 5-10 except marino and Marino never had any help. if marino had Peyton talent he'd have won a few SBs. Young was handed the keys to a dynasty and failed, again only winning after the messy divorce btw the JJs in Dallas. Favre was another great stat guy choker, should have won many SBs. Kelly had excellent talent and belongs in the HOF, he is not on a level w/ these other guys. Montana 16-7 Otto Graham 9-3 Starr 9-1 Brady 17-7 Staubach 12-6 etc... I am always consistent, just b/c you can't keep up in arguments doesn't make my arguments inconsistent. Not everything is black and white, guys like Young, Favre and manning had SB caliber talent around them the majority of their careers yet each won just one. A guy like Marino never had SB caliber talent, he elevated bad teams to postseason on a consistent basis.
Im not commenting guys I never saw play. I didnt realize you were that old(I doubt you are) Otto Graham- seriously?
I cant keep up with your arguments, but you seem to forget Mark Clayton- who'd start on all of these "choking" Qb's who were surrounded by HOF talent there entire careers. Marino is probably the greatest passer I've ever seen btw. Him not winning a SB shouldnt take away from his greatness imo. His running game was consistently awful. But the guy did have weapons on the outside. Mark Clayton was a monster.
So just to clear all of this up- your greatest QB's of all time are Brady, Staubach, Otto Graham, Bart Starr and Montana?
did you see Babe Ruth play? we know how great he was though, right? Mark Clayton would be the 3rd or 4th option on most of Manning's Indy teams. marino didn't play w/ any HOFers on Outside of Dwight Stephenson his C whose career was cut short in 1987. Peyton will have played w/ 2 HOF WRs. My top 5 are: Montana Unitas Graham Brady Marino
You realize Peyton is the biggest reason Harrison and Wayne are going to the HOF? Otto Graham was playing the New York Yankees in football for crying out loud. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/194712140naa.htm You're all over the place. It seems you're trying to perch Brady up to mythical status, by over analyzing Peyton's career(when we could easily do the same for all the other greats). Brady's a first ballot HOF'er. As is Peyton- they're the two greatest modern day QB's post Montana and Marino. You're splitting hairs with this and going in circles.
About # of playoff wins, it's scary to think Joe Flacco already has 8. I don't think he's even a top 10 on the current NFL list of QB's (who lacks of average good QB's, besides some legendary one's still playing) but you can't deny he gets hot in january.
You realize Harrison was developing into a top WR before Peyton and wayne has been great the last 2 years w/o him, right? Duper was nothing before Marino and Clayton did nothing when he left Marino. who cares who Graham was playing? the man was a winner and gets forgotten in the QB debates just like Don Hutson who was the greatest WR to ever play the game but never gets discussed. I am giving Brady proper credit, I despite Brady and his team but I appreciate greatness. I rooted for Peyton in every NE-Indy game and I appreciate his greatness too but he's choked too many times for me to put him on the same level as Brady. He's still a 1st ballot HOFer obviously but there are different levels and he's not in that top 5 level. You have to split hairs w/ the all time great players and teams.
Funny thing, Sanchez actually has a better playoff W/L % and post season QB rating than all 4 of them. I know he's got a small sample size, but it is what it is. That's the reason I haven't given up on him completely.
Clayton was a beast. He played one last season in GB if memory serves and he was old- so him doing nothing after Marino is pretty much irrelevant. Harrison was a first round pick- of course he was developing. Wayne was a first round pick too. Neither guy is putting up those types of numbers with any other QB in the league over the course of their careers. Neither were in the Randy Moss territory type of greatness. ANd if youre going to blame Peyton for all of his post season chokes shouldnt Marvin Harrison share some too? Him pouting on the sideline during the Jets game and fighting with ball boys? Harrison punked out more than anyone. And it turns out- he was a punk.
He was 32 in his last season in GB, reggie Wayne was 34 last year in Indy. Harrison was still raw, he was a QB in college then changed positions. He was still learning the position but was off to a great start, he would have been a HOF pretty much anywhere. Brady never had Moss in his prime, Brady got him as damaged goods and helped him have his best season ever. I don't JUST blame Peyton, he was the lead character in those chokes but Harrison gets his share of the blame too along w/ many others BUT Peyton's chokes kept happening long after Harrison retired.
im super happy junc found something else to argue with people about. even happier i dont care even a little bit about this argument!!!
He has 9 wins I think. 2,1,1,1,4. His first two trips to the playoffs were atrocious. His next 2 trips were better, but nobody was paying attention, almost great. His most recent trip, one of the better runs a QB put historically. I also believe, he has never gone 4 games without an INT in his career, and he did it for those 4 playoff games last year. Also interesting fact, Eli, Brees, and Flacco have all gone to the playoffs the same amount of times, 5 trips. Flacco is the only one who has gone every year of his career.
Since this thread was up, instead of starting a new one, just throwing this in here. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9488632/bill-barnwell-names-best-qbs-nfl-history I think it's a new way to look at the best QB discussion. The championship belt idea is a clever one, and it shows how hard it is to be the best over a long time. The authoer makes the point, no QB held the "belt" for more than 4 consecutive years
