If the refs get Vinny down before reaching the goal line, the jets lose the game. That's a gift. It happens and I don't apologize for that. Vinny threw 7 interceptions in 11 games, not a full season. You didn't address what the results would have been had he been forced to play opening day as Favre was. Or if favre was given the first 5 weeks off. Also, Vinny was working with better weapons, thus why the '98 team was better. Keyshawn > Cotchery Chrebet > Coles Ward > Stuckey C Mart > Jones Byers (hyrbrid TE) > Baker/Keller Mawae > Mangold Jumbo > D 'Brick I am not buying that Vinny was better than Favre, nor I am I prepared to say the opposite is true. Let's see how Brett performs the last 6 games and playoffs before making that conclusion.
The '98 offense was MUCH better than the '08 offense. Vinny started 13 games in the reg season and w/ him under C our O scored 26 pts a game(taking out 30 pts scored by D and STs). This year our O has scored 25 PPG(taking out D and STs TDs) but in 1998 we played a really difficult sched w/ 8 playoff teams on the sched. So far we have played 3 yteams that as of today would make it and in total have 5 on the sched that would make it as of today. 35
Vinny only played 11 games? how did he go 12-1 as a starter then? Vinny threw it 421 times in 1998 and threw only 7 picks, Favre has thrown it 315 times and has 12 INTs. -Keyshawn would match up w/ Coles and I'd give the edge to Key. -I would give the edge to Coptch over Chrebet though -Ward slightly better than Stuckey but they are similar. -Thomas Jones clearly gets the egde over Curtis. Curtis was plying hurt in 1998 and averaged 3.5 YPC, Jones is averging 4.5 YPC. You are using reputations, how careers shook out to evaluate but that's not fair b/c clearly Jones this year is better than Curtis '98 and clearly Vinny was MUCH better than favre this year. -Byars '98 was NOT better than Keller this year. Did Byars have an impact in any game that year like Keller had the other night? NO! Byars had 26 recs in 13 games, Keller has 27 in 10. -Mawae better than mangold, we agree. -Jumbo better than Brick? i'm not so sure and we have better guards this year. I don't get how you don't think vinny '98 was bettert ha favre this year when Favre has played poorly most of the year whiel Vinny was great all year in 1998. It's not even debateable at this point.
I clearly said that I am not crowning Favre over Vinny. I just want to see how the last 6 games play out before making that judgment. My math was off from when Vinny started games. The bottom line is that he wasn't forced to start on Day 1 with a month of preparation as Favre was. That is part of the reason Favre threw some of those interceptions. If Favre beats Tennessee and runs the table, his numbers will look very good compared to Vinny. Let's watch how it plays out. One thing is obvious to me, however. This is Brett Favre's team and he is the clear leader of the team. In 1998, it was Parcells' team and Vinny played a large role with a leadership assist to Curtis Martin.
If Favre plays great the last 6 it will be very difficult to catch Vinny. Favre wasn't throwing alot of INTs early this seaosn so that wasn't the reason he threw 7-8 in 3 games. Sure it was BPs team but the team transformed w/ Vinny, something that likely wouldn't have happened w/ Foley.
No doubt about that. The other similarity is that Parcells transformed Vinny from turnover machine to responsible QB. In the end, maybe Mangini's "Don't hit on 20" was the transformation Favre needed as well.
I think it has to be close if only because the '08 OL and DL lines may be a little stronger. '98 would probably win however.
If memory serves, our Defense in 98 scared opponents. We had a STOUT D, and Bryan Cox applying blitz pressure over the middle and ferguson anchoring the line. It was one of the few times in the last 15 years that our D was well respected. Fire up a video on youtube and your memories will come flooding back. THAT 3-4 had HUGE bodies across the board, especially at LB. Individuals aside, that D as a WHOLE was excellent. I think this D may wind up being more CLUTCH if they can ever get the pass coverage sorted out, but that D was simply stout.
Better all around team, better QB play and one of the great coaching staffs of the last 20 years in the NFL. We lost to a great Denver team on the road in a tough battle.
I hope so, so far it's worked. I think people are overrating our D just a tad. They didn't scare anyone, we had a very good D but it was a bend don't break D not a dominant D. We didn't have great pass rushers, the pass rush came from the scheme. I THINK we have the potential to have a dominant D w/ this group. They have showed flashes but haven't been consistent. Hopefully they will be playing their best football down the stretch like the Giants D did last year.
Agreed but the 98 Team had a level of toughness to them that Bryan Cox brought to the table that I don't see on this D. Harris last year looked like he was going to be that guy but he hasn't emerged this year as an enforcer to fear like I hoped he would. The 98 D was ranked 2nd in points against and while they weren't dominating they did punish teams. They also went 13 & 3.
I agree about harris, I think that training camp injury affected him more than they let on as he was decent this year but not close to the player he was a year ago. Cox was great in 1998 but we went 12-4 not 13-3. The D was very good but they thrived on our O getting them leads and they did blow a 10 point 2nd half lead at Denver though that was more the O's fault for not being able to score w/ all the TOs.
That Denver team was a real good team and Denver is probably the toughest place to play in the NFL. They had an amazing running attack that year and Elway could still make a D that was cheating up pay. They were also a real good quick D that while not dominating stopped the run and kept points off the board and did get turnovers. If TN losses this week and we can run the table than there's a great shot to get to the dance and make the argument this team is better. I hope they do it but today I can't see the argument for this team.
Well to be fair, Harris hasn't played since our turnaround after the Chiefs win and our entire team has played in another level since then.
Sorry, but my memory is faulty nowadays... Why eggs-ackly would you say the 1998 defense was better than the current bunch? I can't remember a defensive player as great as Jenkins since Joe Klecko was on the field. Thomas is having a great year, Ellis is playing well, Revis is as good as I have seen for a long time at his position, etc. etc. How can you state that the 1998 team was so much better? All I remember about the 1998 team is hearing that "they don't have he talent to win, so they need to work harder than their opponents."
The 98 team was stacked. On offense you had Curtis "My Favorite" Martin, Keyshawn, and Cherbet with Vinny playing the best football of his life. The defense was pretty good back then too, Mo Lewis, Aaron Glenn, Bryan Cox, Jason Ferguson, Victor Green, James Farrior, among others. Plus Parcells > Mangini. Although I think this Jets team has a more even distribution of offensive weapons with Leon, TJ, Cotch, Laveranues, Favre, and Dustin Keller. This year's defense could possibly better better in some aspects, but it's a much younger and inexperienced group than back in 98. In 98 they let up 16.625 points per game. This year 22.1. So there's quite a large difference.
