I do have facts though and the facts are thus : THE NFL PLAYERS VOTED ON WHO THE TOP 100 NFL PLAYERS WERE FOR 2011 AND TEBOW WAS VOTED ON TO THE LIST.
That's great. They also voted Ray Lewis as a top five player and DMac top 100 in 2010. The players have a good track record with this sort of thing.
You have stated your opinion several times. I have stated my opinion several times. I did make my argument You made your argument Your mind did not change My mind did not change we might as well talk about Kellen Moore. I think you guys got a diamond in the rough with that kid. I have a feeling he is going to make it somewhere, he outplayed Wilson at the senior bowl and his record and stats were off the charts, he is not even as short as some say at 6' 1" , he is just scrawny....arm strength matters less when your deadly accurate, have tremendous footwork and anticipation. I think the Lions scored big with him signing him after the draft.
Who is "they"? Did everyone vote for Tebow? Does every award winner (MVP, Rookie of the Year, Offensive Player of the Year) always receive votes from every person eligible to cast a ballot? You're making far too many assumptions about how this list was formulated.
You're assuming a lot of players didn't say "damn, this took longer than I thought it would. I'm sick of this BS. Five more names to go. I'll write down every player's name that comes off the top of my head: Tony Romo, Chris Johnson, Tim Tebow, Albert Haynesworth, and Reggie Bush.
I agree with this. Certain positions don't know that much about some positions, and really, the players that know the positions best are the ones that play the same position. I used the word position a lot.
To begin: it's a fact that Tebow strongly favors rolling out to his left side and defenses caught onto that late in the season. 1. No passing touchdowns and less than 200 yards in the air. You failed to mention his 2 fumbles (one lost) and 4 sacks. His lack of Quarterbacking prevents him from being able to lead a comeback against a staggering point deficit. Running the ball down the field takes more time off the clock, so the Denver D blowing the game doesn't take blame away from Tebow-- instead, it reveals a serious flaw in his ability to win football games. Without a good defense, Tebow can't win the game (same happens in #2). 2. A.k.a. "he had a bad game". You're just trying to dismiss and downplay Tebow's flaws. How did he play "well" for 3 Quarters when his stats through 3Q were: 5/10, 77 passing yards, 1 passing TD, 2 sacks, 1 fumble lost 9 carries for 22 yards (2.44 yards per carry) and 1 rushing TD Is your definition of "well" not throwing interceptions and playing mediocre at best? He had a golden opportunity to start the 4th Quarter (defensive pass interference put the ball at the BUF 43 with a fresh set of downs down 12 points) but he threw 2 incompletions and a short pass to Royal but Buffalo tackled him to keep the catch at 2 yards. Just like Sanchez makes terrible decisions, Tebow made a terrible decision on the next drive (pick six). I can't remember Sanchez ever throwing pick six's on consecutive passes, can you? You can't call this game an anomaly given his extremely small sample size of NFL starts. You saw a fourth quarter where Tebow was forced to throw the ball down the field to save time on the clock and he failed miserably-- interceptions and completions galore. 3. "Any Given Sunday". Football teams are radically different week-to-week. Your logic means that losing to any team that beat any playoff team makes that loss insignificant. Also, there was a week between the Packers and Broncos which the Chiefs lost (to the Raiders), so it's not as though you can say momentum carried over from one week to another. You can't even argue that "because they handed the Packers their first loss that means the Chiefs are a legit opponent any given week" because the Packers came close to losing in several games (DET by 4, MIN by 6, SD by SD by 8, CAR by 7, CHI by 10) and beating the Packers by 5 is just as likely of an outcome as losing to the Packers by 2 on any given Sunday. This is the most inexcusable loss for Tebow-- down 4 points you're able to take the lead at any point in the game. Out of the 20 teams that didn't make the playoffs, 16 of them beat playoff teams (Miami, Cleveland, Dallas and the NY Jets were the only 4 teams that didn't beat a playoff team). You didn't mention Tebow's atrocious stats (6/22, 60 passing yards, 1 interception. 6 rushes for 16 yards (2.7 ypc), 1 fumble lost). You also didn't mention that Orton beat both Tebow and the Packers as the QB of Kansas City (a player I'm sure you've argued is worse than Tebow). How about Tebow in the 4th Quarter? 1/6, 8 passing yards, 2 sacks, 1 interception. He was a miserable failure on the final drive: 15 of Denver's 23 yards gained came from a roughing the passer penalty. 4th and 2 on the DEN 48 down by 4 points with about 20 seconds left on the clock, Tebow throws an INT. What side did he roll out to on that play? LEFT. Chiefs Defense exploited his tendency/flaw. 4. If it weren't for Thomas pulling a fat stiff arm and running about 60 yards after the catch, Tebow probably would've ended the year 0-4. 5. Game is null given the above statement.
I want to have a discussion about this. We need to talk about it in the frame of reference that Tebow was voted as a Top 100 player but he was not voted as a Top 90 player. Blankedly saying he was voted a Top 100 player implies he was solidified in the Top 100 or a unanimous choice, which is misleading. EDIT: To defend the list, you need to defend the list's flaws. Let's start with Kuhn. He's not even in the top-half of his position (ProFootballFocus ranks him 21st out of 29 fullbacks).
If I remember correctly, didn't a 3rd year starter only manage to put up 166 yards against the Pats in the 5th week of this past season ??
Ummmm, no, it actually doesn't. If a player comes in and provides a spark, motivation, determination, or even hope and optimism, and the team starts playing better, it makes perfect sense to say THAT player turned the team around, but it was still a team effort overall. Does that make sense ?
You don't understand how voting works apparently (not trying to be blunt about it, but seriously). Mathematically, depending on the sample size, rank-based voting may be skewed by outliers favoring other players way too strongly (Dawkins voting Tebow best player in the league, for example, didn't really happen I'm sure) and by name recognition.
I thought this wasn't a Sanchez v Tebow discussion? I feel if I refute you someone will correct me and say that...
Ummm, I do understand how voting works Talk about skewing, we can look at how many guys DIDN'T put Tebow on their list, possibly because they were tired of all the hype. Certainly that would skew things in the other direction, no ???
No because it's not a list of exclusion; it's a list of inclusion. There are so many NFL players that voters have an opportunity to vote for players instead of voting against certain players. Also, to make a true impact on the list you have to have some sort of collusion (if 10 players hate Tebow and those 10 players each vote 10 different players in the top 100 instead of Tebow it doesn't put any one player above Tebow so it doesn't "move him down the list by putting someone above him"). If it were "rank the top starting QB's in order" you'd have a point there but it isn't.
