Thanks for all the effort you put in there, man. That must have taken some time. I think this chart shows that Tebow has talent. I'm not saying he's up there with Brees or Rodgers or Manning (either of them), but he certainly has the ability to be productive. I like the guy and I hope he continues to work his ass off to improve as a QB because I think that once the novelty of defending a QB like him wears thin and opposing DCs adjust, he'll struggle mightily. Here's to hoping he can continue to improve his game!
Adjust these numbers for the Lockout, and no reps with first team, and taking over with the best WR jettisoned just before. He has yet to rep a full off season with any first team
Stats are great but are never thought to be a answer, but just support a theory.... My question is with less than 2 minutes to go ball at your own 20, down by 6 which qb do you feel comfortable with? Do you think a traditional passer or a dual option qb? Who moves the ball against time? Who gives you the best chance at driving the distance? Who does the defense fear? I think a traditional pocket passer, but let me know what you guys think... I was gonna start a new topic but seen this discussion so posted it here....
Then you are answering a question about a football player without ever having watched him play more than two times...I seriously doubt you really have any football knowledge at all, if you make a statement like that about a QB who led a team to 22 wins in a row in the SEC.. and a National Championship..unless everyone else on the entire planet isn't as smart as you are about football.
I saw Tebow play 8 games throughout the course of last season and post-season. No, it's not the entire product, but it was enough to see a guy with instincts and form completely unfit to be a starting passer. And give it up with the collegiate accomplishments, those typically mean squat after a player is drafted. We're talking professional football, not the college brand. He's totally inconsistent in the pocket, his footwork is out-and-out terrible, and many of his completions are way off target and made possible only through the effort of his receivers. And until you decide to deign us with this glut of football knowledge you purportedly have, you have no business doubting anyone else's football knowledge.
2011 Comparisons. People who think Blaine Gabbert is anywhere near Tebow's abilities need to take a closer look. In today's NFL you cannot win when you have more turnovers than touchdowns. In this case anything under 1.0. From the other chart it appears league average for QB's is around 1.5 touchdowns per turnover which makes more sense when you consider all the rushing touchdowns scored by non-QB's. Also notice what happens to other quarterbacks when the number of attempts go down. A lot of them are in the negative in some areas. Negative numbers represent turnovers and 0 touchdowns. Mark's TD% was actually very respectable last year. Unfortunately his TO% and Fumbling % are near league bottom. However I will re-iterate that in these comparisons all fumbles count against the rush. For this comparison it was easier to include them against the rush due to the fact no subtraction was necessary when taking the numbers from NFL.com and it didn't require an extra column. Placing them against the pass would have screwed up the interception %. In the end what matters is the more important "total turnovers" column.
Now can you factor in yardage totals and completion percentage? I see attempts, I don't see completions anywhere. This is a totally biased number crunch.
It's a scoring analysis of touchdowns and turnover analysis. Everybody and their mother knows about their passing stats. I'm presenting what people don't look at. Again, Tebow's approach to football, is non-conventional, but this shows his effectiveness. And for the record, completion % and yardage are WORK oriented stats. They are not results. They are a means to an end: touchdowns or turnovers, which are ultimately the stats that matter most and win or lose football games. There's a million different ways to move the football. What matters is the end result. Did you score or turn over the ball? PS: But if you want that, it's called the NFL QB Passer rating. Just remove the weights from the formula. There's actually a website that lets you do that: http://www.qbranking.com/calculator.asp You can tinker with the NFL Passer Rating weights as you wish, but they update their database infrequently. I think it's only up to about October 2011. Actually I think they are in the process of updating their database right now as the historical database appears to be offline. It will be interesting to mess with it once they get it updated.
Has there ever been a time when a team has had both its starting QB and its backup QB ranked in the bottom 5?
The problem with stats is that selected ones can be used to prove just about anything. For example, the statboys at PFF "proved" that the Buffalo Bills had one of the very best OLs in the league last season, and that Demetrius Bell was the 2nd best LT in the league. Yet, the Bills only made Bell a modest offer, and he remains unsigned by any other team despite the dearth of LTs available in FA. Apparently, the pros who actually know what good LT play looks like don't think much of PFF's "proof". The OP's stats fall into the same category. There's a lot of numbers in his chart, but they don't relate much to on-field success. As an earlier poster commented, since football is a team game, does it really matter if the QB scores a rushing TD or the RB does, especially since most NFL coaches don't want their QBs running the ball? The 6 active Super Bowl winning QBs, using the OPs numbers, are: E Manning, 206 career TDs, 4 rushing, 1.9% D Brees, 311 career TDs, 8 rushing, 2.6% T Brady, 351 career TDs, 13 rushing, 3.7% P Manning, 448 career TDs, 20 rushing, 4.5% B Roethlisberger, 201 career TDs, 17 rushing, 8.5% A Rodgers, 166 career TDs, 19 rushing, 11.4% Then there's Tebow: T Tebow, 32 career TDs, 13 rushing, 40.6% Tebow's stats bear absolutely no resemblance to those of the top QBs in the league. DOH.
Actually the numbers I'm focussing on relate directly to on field success, touchdowns/turnovers. The problem with what you are doing, is you are comparing non/rushing QB's stats to rushing QB's stats. Or in Tebow's case, comparing passing QB's stats to dual rushing QB's stats. 25%-30% of his production comes from rushing. And no, it should never be wiped away and strictly compare him based on his passing alone. His rush touchdowns, his ability to protect the ball, do count in the NFL, and they do count towards winning football games. Same with guys like Cam Newton. In the end however the TOTAL amount of touchdowns, irrelevant of whether they come by way of rushing or passing and TOTAL turnovers, do matter more, and do directly translate to on field success. Just like Tom Brady's an incredibly efficient passer, his rushing stats are terrible. Likewise, dual rushing QB's put up a lot of production with their legs, and despite what some people think, it's not the same thing as a running back. There are certain advantages they have which allows them to score rushing touchdowns at a higher %, because of the fact they have at all times, the ability to pass, maintaining a "dual threat" against teams in every situation. But that is why when you add up all of their production, you begin to get an idea just how effective they are OVERALL, as a package, not just from one biased viewpoint which is how most people look at Tim Tebow. That is why you need to look at the TOTAL touchdown/turnover column which is what this analysis about. What they do as a whole is what matters most. Even an elite passer is worthless if he fumbles the ball and turns it over more than he scores touchdowns, even if his passing numbers look great. On the football field it doesn't matter if you put up 153.0 a NFL QB Passer rating, if you fumbled the ball 4 times and turned it over, which doesn't count against those numbers, you could still cost your team the game.
QFT. Tebow is a RB who throws not a QB, and his future is not looking too good because, from the stats of his last 3 regular season games, NFL coaches have figured him out. Tebowmaniacs like the OP trumpet Tebow's early winning streak but ignore the fact that Tebow and the Donkeys lost their last 3 regular season games: 41-23 to the Pats, 40-14 to the Bills, and 7-3 to the Chiefs, largely because of a totally ineffective offense. In that stretch, Tebow scored only 4 TDs, 1 passing and 3 rushing. He also threw 5 picks, including 4 in the game against the Bills, 2 of which were returned for TDs. The NFL is a copycat league. Once one team figured out how to stop Tebow -- contain the running game and force him to pass -- the magic of Tim Tebow evaporated because the rest of the Donkeys' opponents did the same thing. That's what the stats from those last three games show. Now, maybe Tebow will get lucky now and again so as a WC QB he might have some utility, but as a starting NFL QB, Tebow is doomed. Read 'em and weep, Tebowmaniacs.
Makes sense but when you take Tebows rookie numbers when he wasn't a QB his TD to TO drops .4 but you only take out 125 snaps comparing his career to just last year. Clearly in the overall chart, Tebow benefited a lot from being used as a situation QB in the wildcat/read option as the Jets are planing to use him. Looks good for the Jets
Wait so they figured him out in the last 3 regular season game, but he was still able to put up a 125.0 QB Passer Rating in the Playoffs the following week? Your argument makes little sense. His last 3 regular season games came against the Kansas City chiefs, which was also the same defense that took down the undefeated Packers, the Bills, which also were successful in picking off Tom Brady earlier in the season 4 times, and the Patriots who went to the Super Bowl and who did more figuring out of the Broncos defense than they did of Tebow. There is little NFL defenses can do to "figure out" Tim Tebow. He's harder to stop than a conventional QB and will always give teams trouble. He gives your a team a +1 man advantage. They didn't figure out guys like McNabb or Vick for the past decade and they're not going to figure out Tim any easier. The difference between those guys and Tim however, is his innate instinct to protect the football and not throw interceptions which tends to pay off big in the playoffs when all teams get more conservative in their playing style.
ROTFLMAO! Read my post above. In his last three regular season games, Tebow threw 5 picks and scored 4 TDs. The Donkeys lost all three games. That Tebow didn't fumble is irrelevant. This is 2012 not 1912, and QBs are supposed to throw the ball not run with it!
It was a QB rating of 125.6 and he earned that while going 10 of 21 for a 47.6 completion percentage and scored 2 TD and threw no interceptions. He had such a high passer rating because passer rating stats get padded easily by a long TD pass here or there.
Ok so you picked 3 games to judge him on as if it's better than what I am presenting? And I'm sorry but in 2012, QB's are actually supposed to do both. It's pretty obvious that's the direction the league is going in, and two years in a row, the NFL is favoring dual pass/rush QB's in favor of traditional pocket passers with their top draft picks. QB's are supposed to do the same thing in 2012 as in 1912. Score touchdowns, not turn over the ball, and win football games. That's all that matters. There's no rule to how you're supposed to get it done. Maybe in forums and in the middle of public perception, but certainly not in reality, and certainly didn't keep guys like Tebow from winning and winning in the playoffs....in 2012.
Hey if you're going to now begin trumpeting his one playoff win stats, let's compare that to this list:
