We needed that win and we needed Gagne to go to Boston even more. He must be on our payroll. I think he has 5 appearances and 4 losses. We can't do any better for ourselves. Seriously, I read that even in Texas this year he did not look that good. He is a shell of what he was in LA after missing those two straight years. Boston must not have done their homework.
We needed that win badly last night, now at worst we need to split these next 2. hopefully we can take both bit we need at least 1 and hopefully we get some help from LAA.
maybin took clemens yard.. yankee bats are flat today.. hopefully they bring them from here on out.. 5th inning on we need some runs for rocket.. he is pitching well ..
- Torre says he won't use Mariano today - I say Finally Joe, You're using your head and not over using him especially when you don't need to - Joe brings Mariano in He's an ass
Nice win. Assured a split and a chance for a series win. I was hoping for a 14-9 run starting with that series in Toronto last week and we are exactly on pace for that despite the 3 straight losses.
What was wrong with Rivera pitching in the first place? He hadn't pitched since the 15th. No reason why he shouldn't have pitched the 9th. I don't understand.
Because IMO he didn't need to pitch. Mariano is gona be what , 37 this year? It's beyond the whole "He needs Work" thing. Did you see how much better he looked today with rest? That's exactly my point. Joe Over uses him. He didn't need him today. Use him when he's needed
Actually, Joe said he wouldn't use Mariano on Friday. Which he didn't. I never heard him say anything about today. Mo's last appearance was Wednesday. Saturday is actually the PERFECT time to use him after his rough patch. Three run lead. Two days rest.
Again, I think you guys are missing my point. Mariano is at the point in his career where you don't have a "Schedule", No "He needs work". That ship has sailed. Use him when you need to and that's all. Joe over uses him. What's the sense of resting him and using him when you don't need him which makes him unavailable or inaffective when you actually DO need him.
I don't disagree with that but you realize you are saying he can no longer perform as a closer if he can only pitch every 3rd day.
Using Mo was fine yesterday. It was the PERFECT situation. Adding on to what Cappy said, he had ample rest, and the full 3-run save lead. Even if something went wrong, there would be time to pull him and still get the win. A win today would be great, but I still have zero confidence in this team to win out consistently the rest of the way.
I don't understand how we didn't need Mariano yesterday. There may be no post-season to save him for. It was a save situation against one of the best teams in baseball with the 9 (who hit a homer off clemens), 1, and 2 hitters due up (with Sheffield to follow). Plus, is there a decent alternative to using him? There are two pitchers in the bullpen (Joba and Farnsworthless) who have specific rules about how long and often they can pitch. That can really tie a manager's hand. You use Vizcaino for the 9th inning, that would mean he would have 2 innings pitched yesterday, making him effectively unavailable today. We can't start making rules for Rivera now at THIS point in the season, in what is our most difficult stretch of the season. Now you have both pitchers (Rivera and Vizcaino) available to pitch today if need be.
The point is that pitchers don't work like that. You can't put him on a shelf for three weeks and toss him into a game and expect him to be sharp. (Yes, I realize I'm exaggerating.) Mariano has said he pitches better when he gets regular work, and this holds true for just about every reliever in the league. You can't predict when your next close game will be. You can't predict that you'll need him tomorrow but that today is unimportant. What if you don't? Besides, all this talk about the "point of his career" he's at ignores the fact that Mariano nearly always goes through a dead-arm period at some point around or after the trading deadline, and then comes back strong. I'm not saying he can only pitch every third day from this point forward. I'm saying that after a week in which you have used him heavily and started to see him not perform well, giving him two days off and pitching him in a three-run game seems to be just about perfect in terms of how you would WANT to use him after that stretch.
If that were true I'd have no Problem but Joe Sticks with him Even if he's about to blow it. He would not pull him. That's where I have a problem. Mariano has been struggling and Joe has this mentality that he can still go the next day or the 8th & 9th on any given day without regard to his point in his career. Joe needs to get away from this Mo can go 2 days in a row shit and start realizing he needs to use him less often. Do you guys see how wel he does when He's rested? The "Needs work" shit doesn't apply when you're 36 and afa Mo stating he works better, believe me that is all to cover Joe's ass.
If you want to make the point that it can cause a higher likelihood of injury and breaking down, I can buy that. But you're arguing performance, and the stats don't back it up. Between 2004-2006, in the breakdowns of 0, 1, 2, 3-5, and 6 days rest, he has the lowest ERA with 0 days rest and the highest with 6 days rest.
And I think you can't paint these situations with absolutes. Yes, Mo is older. Yes, there needs to be more consideration of how he's holding up or feeling than there was earlier in his career, but I'm sorry, you have far less idea about how Mo is or is not feeling than Guidry, Torre, or Kerrigan... never mind the man himself. Mo's been lights out since the end of April until now. He goes through these August slumps on a regular basis. Go look at his splits. Go compare how he's done on one day of rest. Two days of rest. Three... etc. Compare his outings, and then tell me how he isn't better when he gets regular work. (If you don't feel like doing the work, I'll tell you how it looks... Mo doesn't do as well pitching on back to back days as he does on one or two days of rest... but his worst outings, by far, are when he has three or more days of rest.)
