1. so what? he left a top team to Gruden, notice how they dropped off soon after? same thing w/ Caldwell. who is successful on the BB coaching tree again? Charlie Weiss? Josh McDaniels? does Cowher suck b/c Tomlin came in and won a SB? so does this mean Ben didn't have a great coach either? you are all over the place.
The Patriots held the best offense IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE to 17 points. LMAO. Like I said, you're not even trying.
The Rex Ryan coaching tree is better already then the BB and Dungy coaching trees combined. This is off topic, but I have actually been rooting for Pettine to do well with the Browns this year. He was always in Rex's shadow and he has gotten out of it in a big way.
How are Steelers defenses that allowed 13.9 and 16.1 not considered some of the best of all time within three years of each other? Regardless of what you or I think specifically they are regarded as one of the best defenses ever specifically that 2008 defense.
Parcells, Coughlin and Payton. On the other hand, Dungy's coaching tree (above and below him) is made up of people that squandered Pro Bowl QB play their whole careers. I think Cowher is overrated, but the one thing that really does stand out when you evaluate his performance, is that almost his entire career, he had worse-than-average QBs (until Big Ben) but still made the playoffs. He won with Kordell Stewart.
ha wasn't the best O in the history of the league and that same Pats D blew an historic 4th qt lead in the SB becoming the first team EVER to blow a double digit 4th qtr lead in a SB(they would do it again 2 years later by the way). The crappy Tony Dungy led Bucs held a better version of the Rams Offense to 11 pts on the ROAD. Keep trying.
That Bucs D was Top 5 all-time too. They didn't win anything (indictment on Dungy), but they were awesome. Do you even read what you type, before hitting "post reply"?
They are still on the same tree - unless you think Belichick's first coaching job was the Patriots head coach position.
Those Ds were big time Ds, I am not sure they were all time great D's though especially the 2010 version that got torched in the SB. and the '08 version became just the 3rd D ever to blow a double digit 4th qtr lead in a SB. Can't call those Ds all time greats.
You can't just use the super bowl as a measure for how an aspect of a team or a player performed and that's where your argument is flawed. By that logic Jim Plunkett becomes one of your top quarterbacks ever right?
Funny thing about a coaching tree, it's called that because it's like a family tree. Does your family tree include only your children and grand children? Or are your parents on your family tree too. How about your brothers and sisters? Did they make it onto your family tree? Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin are all on the same tree, just like Dungy is on Schottenheimer's coaching tree (the biggest tree of bad NFL head coaches in league history) .
... 20 seconds before he delivers his dissertation on how Doug Williams was the greatest QB in NFL history.
if you don't play great in the biggest games what does it really matter? the best D's in my lifetime have been the '85 Bears, '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs. '85 Bears allowed 10 pts in 3 games(no road games) '00 Ravens 16 pts in 4 games(2 road games) '02 Bucs 31 pts in 3 games(one road game) '08 Pitt 61 in 3 games(no road games and blew double digit 4th qtr lead in SB) '10 Pitt 58 pts in 3 games(no road games and nearly blew 24-0 lead in title game)
you don't get credit for things guys did before you and guys you didn't even coach with. the coaching tree thing is not like a family tree, it is giving credit to the coach who has coaches sprout below them. BB has Mangini, McDaniels and Crennell- complete failure.
You do in my book; it demonstrates a shared coaching philosophy that wins championships (as opposed to the Schottenheimer/Dungy shared coaching philosophy of having Top 5 talent in the league and Pro Bowl QBs and squandering it).
I would say the 03 Pats had a great defense (Despite their poor performance against the Panthers). Although, certainly not "all-time" great. The 01 and 04 defenses were good, but not great. Just very opportunisitic.
Personally, I think the whole notion of coaching trees is misguided. There are coaches that win big and coaches that don't. There are haves and have-nots. We've seen coaches win big with very different core philosophies and very different offensive and defensive systems.
Payton coached under BP for 3 seasons, never coached w/ BB. BP's staff in Dallas was a mostly new staff from his previous stops w/ NYG, NE and NYJ. I think BB and BP share a philosophy, I don't see that when watching Payton. Peyton has had 4 HCs, only won a SB w/ one and he won his SB throwing 3 TDs and 7 INTs. let's give the HC a little credit.
