Oh my gosh when I saw this post I could not believe my eyes that JWWS was actually confirming what I have been saying for such a very long time about what is wrong with the NYJs Also JWWS JV was NEVER elected to the pro bowl. When ZT opted out of that pro bowl JV was asked to take his place. He was was NOT elected as a 1st alternative. If ZT played JV would not have been there
To expand on my comments about misleading stats and the many variables that go into the success/failure of a team in any season, please also consider the following when doing your research: Was the coach a first time coach? How many years experience did the coach have at the time of the bad season? How many with the team? Did the coach have any experience as a coordinator? What was his overall NFL experience? Did the coach in question bring his team to the playoffs the previous season? Was the team GM a first time GM? What was the GM's NFL experience, and how long has he been a GM and how long with the team? Were any of the coaches coordinators first time coordinators? What are their NFL experiences? Was the team owner a first time sports owner? How long has he owned the team? Were there any major injuries in the bad season? At the start of the season, were any of the major starters coming off major surgeries or injuries (like QB and RB)? Were there any tragic circumstances that may have affected the team performance in the bad season (player/coach/owner death, team moving to a new city the following season, ownership changes, etc.) What was the average point differential in the games? How many games were lost by 7 points or less? Was the coach in question retained after the season. If so, for how many seasons was he retained? Was the coach in the middle of a rebuilding process during the bad season? Was there any major trades or losses before or during the season in question? Was there Free Agency and a salary cap at the time of the season in question. These are just a few that I rattled off in a few minutes. If I put some time in it, I would at least double the list. As you can see, there are many variables that can go into a bad season, and each case is different. I just don't see how you could establish a trend or make a blanket statement when there are so many variables to consider.
Since you say you are a long time fan of the NYJs then you should know that our all time W-L record is under .500 which is a fact & which means we have lost more games then we have won since our inception in 1960 as the Titans. That means except for the 65-69 seasons & maybe the 2 BP season before the VT AH injury everything about this organization from owners to HC to GMs to players reeks of failure which carries on to this day
Well hey I say the franchise is improving overall. Alternating winning seasons with losing seasons is better then stringing together losing seasons all the time. It would be nice to have a contender more then once a decade though.
Answer to question 1: Yes. By definition the Jets would no longer be in the category of terrible team if they managed to win 4 games. Answer to question 2: Do you not understand the difference between building on your achievements and demonstrating competence and growth vs collapsing like a wet noodle? There are many coaches who took over teams and had terrible first seasons but then subsequently improved the team and had success. There are no coaches who took over teams, made the playoffs immediately, collapsed in year two and then ever had any subsequent success with the same team. That's because when a team collapses like that it's generally on the head coaches watch and if he allowed the collapse he's unlikely to be able to do better than that again.
Well that is your decision to make not mine but for sure 08 & 09 are downers. Maybe 10 has hope if we get OLman who can play, DLman or can rush the passer & stop the run, LBers who can plug holes & DBF players who have talent & ability. If we do not hit a grand slam HR with a every draft pick then 10 will also go down the tubes making 11 as a possible year of revival.
So??? Does that mean that the Jets will never win a SB and will never again have a good GM or HC not named Parcells? The same could of have been said about the Patriots before Kraft bought the team and brought BB in. They were one of the worst teams in the league for a long time. Boston Red Sox fans should never have expected to win a World Series since they hadn't done so in what over 80 years. Rangers fans shouldn't have expected to win a Stanley Cup in over a 40 year drought. But all that changed of course.
Stop with this logic crap. There is no hope, especially with Mancrappy at the helm. What's he done for me lately anyway?
Well when the owner continues to hire incompetants then the chance to pull off your scenerio is very, very slim which is exactly what there overall record is saying. You being a CPA you should understand that fact probably more so then most on this board
It's. Been. 2. Years. You don't overhaul a D-line, O-line, secondary, pass rush, and terrible QB situation in 2 offseasons. What is with the older Jets fans and the completely irrational, ridiculous expectations of a second year HC? Herm took a very talented foundation and rode it as long as he could...the entire time they performed under expectations. Mangini takes a no talent team and has them playing hard and even had them exceed expectations and he should be fired. The logic is amazing. Results don't just....come you know. Not when you start from scratch.
Regret to say you totally misunderstood I guess as I was referring to the NYJs since there inception in 1960 which is when there under 500 W-L record began & continues to this day. Go check it to make sure you grasp what I am saying please
Yes, the vast majority of the coaches who take over teams and have a bad season right off the bat are first time NFL head coaches. The coaches who collapse in their second years tend to be first time head coaches and tend to never get another head-coaching assignment in the NFL subsequently. Rich Kotite is an exception to the rule, given that he collapsed in Philadelphia and was subsequently and inexplicably hired by the Jets. Mixed bag here. There are a few coaches in NFL history, like Mike Ditka, who did very well with their first team and then just collapsed with their second, never to coach again. The majority of the coaches had very little, if any, head-coaching experience at the time they took over the team they collapsed with. Irrelevant. We're not talking about what kind of coordinator they were we're talking about what happened when they got full control. Ray Rhodes made the playoffs back to back seasons with the Eagles then went 6-9-1 and 3-13 and out the door. Lindy Infante took the Colts to the playoffs his first season and then 3-13 and out. Bud Carson took the Browns to the playoffs his first season and then 3-13 and out. Different category but Sam Wyche took the Bengals to the playoffs then went 3-13 and out. He was one of Cincinnati's best head coaches ever and could not survive the 3-13 thing. Jack Pardee took the Oilers to the playoffs (3 years running) then 2-14 and out. John McKay took the Bucs to the playoffs back to back seasons for the first time in franchise history but two seasons later 2-14 pushed him out the door. June Jones took the Falcons to the playoffs and then 3-13 and out the door. Vince Tobin took the Cardinals to there only playoff appearance in a 20 year span, but 2 seasons later 3-13 pushed him out the door. John Robinson took the Rams to 6 playoff spots in 7 season but two seasons later 3-13 pushed him out the door. The bottom line is that 3-13 is a terrible record and almost all NFL teams that have experienced it have kicked the coach responsible to the curb very shortly thereafter. None that chose to keep the coach had success with him.
So...the situation is a non-factor? 3-13 overrides last seasons performance, the fact that teams still think of us as an opponent not to be fucked with, the extreme lack of talent at the time of his hire, the schedule that doesn't include the '06 Raiders, Packers, Texans, early-Titans, and Lions are all meaningless...because the fact is we should be SB contenders NOW? Makes no sense.
With the exception of Infante (drafted Manning the next season) and Rhodes (drafted McNabb the next season) almost all of those franchises remained consistently unsuccesful after firing their coach. That would indicate that there was a heck of a lot more wrong with those organizations than the coach. Also in general, I'd be very hesitant to bring up examples from before the salary cap era. With the cap and free agency it does appear to be a lot easier to turn things around fastly. On this note, Jon Gruden, Jeff Fisher and Romeo Crennel have all overcome 4-12 seasons (Gruden/Crennel in 06, Fisher in 05) and are all good teams now. I think too much emphasis on the "3 or fewer wins" stat. If the Jets beat KC on Sunday, would that really change the view of you or any of the other anti-Mangini posters on this board? I tend to doubt it.
I sense hostility here, which, in turn, angers me. Here's the deal. Toss history aside for a moment. Do I think Eric Mangini coached well here in 2007? I do not. I think he coached very poorly. In my book, he has no excuses. This 2007 team had more of his stamp on it than the 2006 team. This team had no major injuries. People who complain about the schedule difficulty have a loser's mentality. The schedule is not an excuse whatsoever. Going from 10-6 to 3-13 or 4-12 without any good excuses should not be tolerated. The problem with coaching a team to a sub-.200 record is it indicates the coach is not competent and it is very easy for the players to lose faith in the coach. Whether the Jets finish 3-13 or 4-12 is not the issue. I am using the benchmark of .200 because earlier this season I posted in a thread where somebody wrote Mangini should come back even if the Jets go 3-13 (.188). If that is a problem for you, you can research all the 4-12 guys. Absolutely, it does.
He did not even last that long. Carson went 9-6-1 in his first year. He began the next year 2-7 and was canned. One of the best comparisons, and perhaps the best comparison, to Mangini's performance would be Joe Collier of the Bills. Collier was a young head coach in his rookie season of 1966. He was 34 years old. The Bills went 9-4-1 in that season. They lost their playoff game. The following year, the Bills went 4-10. In 1968, the Bills began the season 0-2 and Collier was sent packing. Collier was never again a head coach in the NFL (or AFL).
Not all of the older fans are negative at this point, but there are certainly more negative older fans than younger fans. This comes down to experience basically, I can smell a disaster about to happen because I've seen them happen before. A younger fan just does not have that perspective. That's not a knock, just saying that you don't know what you don't know and older fans have less that they don't know at this point. Results do come more often, even from scratch, when you know what you are doing. The problem with this season is that the Jets clearly did not know what they were doing in the off-season. Andre Wadsworth? Really?
Nice find. I stayed with post-merger only because it's just so much work to dig through this stuff, especially when Pro-Football-Reference.com has just revamped the site and made it harder to search for stuff like this. There's no way Mangini is getting fired before about game 9 next season if he lasts through this offseason. There'd have to be a total player revolt coming out of camp for that to happen and I doubt that scenario. It's going to be interesting to see who the Jets pick to supplement the existing staff in the offseason. If they hire a good young DC it might be a clue that Mangini's on a short leash.
