With regards to the bolded, nothing is for sure. I totally disagree that we will know what the OL can do against a good OL within the first two games. We could have 4 new starters on the OL at a minimum, maybe even 5. With no mini-camp, OTAs and possibly even a curtailed Training Camp and little or no preseason, it's going to take the OL time to gel. The OL could look radically different by the end of the season than how it looks in the first two games. The only thing for sure is that we will have a bunch of new starters on the OL. IMO it's certainly sure that they will be better. They have to be, I can't imagine how they would be any worse. It's also pretty sure that they will be significantly better. Bell will have holes this year, that's also pretty certain. The question is will he have the speed to get through them before they close and be able to do anything with them? Another poster commented yesterday or Friday that the RB corps is better this year. I disagree. With a better OL it should get better production, but I think replacing Montgomery with Perine and not having Bilal Powell is a downgrade. Perine hasn't done anything in the NFL yet, and didn't do all that much in college.
I disagree. It IS the philosophy. When a GM continually prioritizes taking positions that are not high priority positions over those that are, it's the philosophy. When a GM continually drafts one position group/position and ignores others of glaring need, it's the philosophy. When your team has had a glaring need at edge rusher for 15 years or so and one of the best prospects to come along in years is sitting right there, and you pass on him for yet another DT/3-4 DE, it IS the system, especially when that edge rusher is an exceptional football player, athlete, has great character and work ethic, wants to be one of the best, and is equally good at rushing the passer, dropping into coverage, and playing the run (a generational player at his position), and you pass on him for yet another DT, it IS the philosophy. When you pass on a prospect that started for three seasons, has had very good, if not great production in college for those three seasons and whose production and level of play improved each year, and take a player who only started for one year in college, and at a less important position no less, then it is the stupid, freaking philosophy.
I just wonder what you would have done differently this off-season? You love Robby that much? Would you have re-signed him instead of Perriman? Then what? Draft Lamb or Jeudy instead of Becton So your WR's are Anderson and Lamb, with no one at left tackle? You said it right: Rome wasn't built in a day. There is only so much Douglas can do in one off-season. Maybe you would have wanted to trade for Hopkins or Diggs? Not sure that was even an option for the Jets. The only other WR available was Emmanuel Sanders, but he is getting older. Maybe you would have drafted another WR in later rounds, but that is no guarantee it would help the 2020 unit for Sam.
I think you’re making the mistake of including 2018 and 2019 into the equation. This has to be looked at as a fresh start. Tannenbaum can say whatever he wants to about what killed his regime, but trading away too many draft picks and missing on some high picks is what killed his regime. He missed on Stephen Hill, Vlad Ducasse and Kellen Clemens in the second round, and didn’t have a 2nd rounder in 2008, 2009 or 2011... that’s too many misses when you trade away picks. On top of that he missed on Quinton Coples, Vernon Gholston, Kyle Wilson, and depending on your view, Mark Sanchez in the first From 2006-2012, he “hit” on 6 out of 13 first and second round selections. While around 50% is expected, when you trade away so many picks you force a need to hit at a higher rate, especially with high picks. In the stretch from 2007-2012, the Jets made 19 selections in rounds 1-5, whereas each team starts with 30 choices in those rounds over 6 years If you hit on 50%, you need about 15 successful choices right? If you hit on 50% of 19, you are adding ~9 players of quality. To account for surrendering picks, you need a higher hit rate to stay competitive. Tannenbaum’s best class by far was 2006, largely because they had so many picks, and that built the foundation of the 2009-2010 run. It fell apart because they changed their personnel strategies immediately after 2006. The Jets didn’t have good WR’s but what if they had an additional 6 quality players in 2012? They could have been 2 or even 3 WR’s and a pass rusher, and a DB, and an offensive lineman.
With regards to the bolded, I can. I've suffered through every one of those seasons. Every year I screamed for the Jets to draft an OLB/Edge Rusher, but most years there were no great prospects where we were picking in the 1st round, and the boobs we've had for GMs couldn't find their asses if their life depended upon it, so we missed out on those taken after the 1st round. Lo and behold a gift finally falls into the laps of the Jets in 2018. A generational type OLB that is equally adept at rushing the passer, dropping into coverage and playing the run. He's a much better prospect as a pass rusher than the FA OLB they signed from the Vikings who quickly reneged. And what did our great GM Mac do? The freaking dumbass passed and took yet another DT. I really wish that Mac and the Johnsons could be forced to stand on the field of MetLife Stadium and have the fans pelt them with garbage and rotten eggs, and the Johnsons be forced to sell the team.
At this point I think Clowney can be had for a reasonable price on a 2 year deal, so I’d definitely bring him in. Pairing him with Jenkins on the edge will really solidify our defense. Maybe one of Cager or Campbell turn into an early contributor for us. Unfortunately it was impossible to entirely fix both the OL and WR corps in one offseason. With that being said, JD seems to know what he’s doing and is definitely off to a good start.
This is too easy, TDK. It's a layup or a softball. The OL needed to be fixed. Kurt has applauded fixing the OL in FA. I know that Kurt loves Becton, and I praised that pick and have said that he had to be the pick over Lamb, whom I loved and really wanted for the Jets. Your suggesting that Kurt is saying that Douglas should have taken Lamb over Becton, kept Anderson, or traded for Hopkins or Diggs is beneath you. Kurt has made no such suggestions. There are a number of ways in which Douglas could have taken another WR in the draft and it doesn't take a slide rule or a lot of thinking to figure out what those were. Sorry, but imo, this is probably the worst post I've ever seen you make. Douglas still had plenty of opportunities to add 2 WRs in an historically great draft for WRs. For that matter, he was lucky to get one. IMO trading down and not taking Mims at #48 was beyond stupid, and Douglas got very lucky that Mims was still there. We easily could have wound up with no WR, or a WR in a low round that had no chance to help the team this year, or possibly ever. Smart GMs draft to the strength of the draft, especially when they have a glaring need. It wasn't even a good draft for edge rushers, but it was a historically great draft for WRs. Douglas deserves a major hit for not taking two WRs in this draft. I'm still made enough about it that I wouldn't care if he was fired tomorrow. It's extremely troubling to me that he didn't prioritize the WR position and helping Sam and the offense more. It truly concerns me that he isn't the GM that we have needed, as his priorities and decision making seem off. Douglas easily could have taken a WR (Bryan Edwards) instead of Zuniga. Developing Sam is more important than fixing the D. Edge has been a glaring need for 14-15 years. One more year wouldn't make that much difference. He also could have taken Devin Duvernay at that spot. Failing that, while Morgan and Clark look like great additions, Douglas could have passed on one of them and taken Antonio Gandy-Golden or Gabriel Davis at one of their spots. Instead of taking Davis, he could also have possibly traded down from the #68 spot, and possibly acquired an additional 4th, if not a 4th and 5th round pick, and used one of those to take a WR. IMO the only justification that Douglas should have for passing on another WR was that he didn't have Edwards, Duvernay, Gandy-Golden and Davis rated that highly. That would at least be understandable and a valid reason for not taking another WR. All the needs weren't going to be filled this year, but imo his priorities should have been different. While Davis looks like a great prospect/player, another S should have been the last position that Douglas should have considered taking. Finding a replacement for Maye or setting up the pipeline for the S position for the future should not have taken precedence or priority over ensuring that Sam and the offense develop this season. The offense has been an embarrassment and woefully ignored for decades. The team was way out of balance and still is, although the situation has improved some. Adding good or very good players at other positions on the defense isn't a justification or excuse for continuing to ignore the skill position players.
With regards to the bold, no, it wasn't. Not even close. C'mon guy, you're better than this. Douglas had 4 chances between the 3rd and 4th rounds to take another WR and spit the bit. He could have taken another WR at any of those spots instead of the player he took. IMO he seemed to know what he was doing until the draft passed and we only had one WR, and were darned lucky to have him. We could just as easily have wound up with no WR in the draft, because another team could/should have taken Mims before #59.
LOL Thanks, but it just makes my blood boil. I've seen enough stupidity from this franchise to last 20 lifetimes! It never fails. The Jets have a glaring need for years, and when they finally get a chance to fix that need/hole, they blow it. That's bad enough, but then just when you think the Jets have finally hired someone (Douglas) who will be better than his predecessors, make wise decisions, and build a winner, he turns around and does something stupid like getting greedy in the draft and trading down in the 2nd round instead of taking a WR who was graded as a low 1st round or high 2nd round pick who would have been great value at pick #48 and fill a huge need. Then he gets lucky as hell and the WR is still there, but then he passes on taking another WR in one of the best WR classes ever and when we still have a huge need and mostly question marks in terms of the veterans on our roster. You just can't make this shit up. Unless Zuniga proves to be a revelation and Jenkins steps his play up another level, Edge will definitely still be a big need, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet that WR will be as well. I have zero faith in getting anything from Doctson, and not a lot more in Perriman. It could take time for Mims to adjust to the NFL, then if Herndon doesn't return to the form of his rookie season... Chances are that if Douglas had taken Edwards, the Jets wouldn't have had to worry about the WR position (except perhaps the slot WR position once Crowder's contract expires) for a number of years. Now it could very easily be a big need again in next year's draft.
It’s not a best WR class until they prove it in the league, just saying. Just remember when he traded back Van Jefferson, Denzel Mims, and Chase Claypool were all still available. I would have been happy with any one of those guys.
His first draft has been rated pretty highly wrt value of his picks. It's entirely probable that the WRs available at those picks just weren't good value on his board. And by "reaching" for a WR he'd be giving up value instead of getting it. This team had so many holes he just needed to find some good players to add. The only one I really question is the QB but I'm willing to give JD the benefit of the doubt because the rest of his off-season has been well executed.
No, what determines the strength of a draft class is what they did in college and their talent level. No one ever knows what players will do in the NFL with any certainty. It was one of the deepest and strongest classes of WRs in NFL draft history. That's fact. What they do in the NFL is immaterial. Yes, I know that Jefferson and Claypool were also still available, but a lot of teams needed help at WR. The three players aren't equal, either. Mims is the most developed of the three and has the highest ceiling. He also had the most production. IMO Jefferson doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Mims. His great route running really did him a lot of good in college. Denzel Mims equaled what it took Jefferson 4 years to accomplish in two seasons. Claypool was a good prospect, but not as good as Mims, although I would have been happy with Claypool and another WR, just less so than Mims and another WR in the draft. Just one of them wasn't good enough imo. IMO Jefferson isn't gonna do squat in the NFL. He's too slow.
He did get great value, and I credit him with that. Hopefully, you're right about the value of the WRs. I alluded to that in an earlier post. That is the only thing that would justify Douglas' not taking a 2nd WR in the draft imo, and even then, it might have been better to reach a little for a WR rather than take a player that wasn't a position of need or have the importance of need that WR had in this draft.
How is it a mistake? Fresh start sure. But that doesn't change the fact you're trying to build around a young QB entering his 3rd season,when in his first 2 seasons the WR corps & entire surrounding cast has been vastly subpar. If I'm taking over the team first place I'm looking at is how do i help the young QB? OL Yes but he needs help at WR just as badly. 1 WR drafted in Sam's entire time here is unacceptable. JD isn't let off the hook b.c he wasn't here for 2 of them. It's HIS job to recognize the sins of the past & do something to rectify it. I would agree w. Tannenbaum's pitfalls, but to completely dismiss what he feels was his biggest mistake when in fact WAS a massive mistake..seems a bit haphazard. The last QB the jets drafted & tried to develop ultimately failed b.c of lack of skill help around him. Here we are w. Sam & literally the exact same thing is happening. I don't think a team can take their time & drag their feet in providing a young QB a skill corps for him to grow with. Chemistry matters. Continuity matters. RESOURCES matter. Giving a QB legit targets to throw to is part of building a foundation for the long term. What long term pieces does Sam really have around him? What we're seeing right in front of our eyes is the recipe on how NOT to build around & develop your QB. Maybe next year...but more likely no. Team & fans will see some shiny Edge, Corners & more OL that are supposedly more important.
Taking a receiver in the 3rd or 4th wouldn't have turned around the receiver corps. Sure, we would have two young players going into next offseason but we still wouldn't have that bonafide talent that can take over games. The Jets needed 4 new starters on the OL, and might actually have 5 new starters this year depending on the outcomes of the competition. Douglas addressed setup the OL for the next couple of seasons with his additions. They needed two new starters at WR because Enunwa has most likely played his last snap in the NFL and Anderson left in FA. He signed Perriman and landed Mims at 59, whom I would have taken at 48 so I agree with you there. To that point, it's obviously all hypothetical but I could have seen Douglas double dipping at WR in the 3rd and 4th if he missed out on Mims at 59. The draft also didn't really play into the Jets favor with that huge run of WRs at the start of the 2nd. I'm expecting him to sign a FA vet as depth behind Perriman and Mims. Maybe Paul Richardson, Demaryius Thomas, or Jordan Matthews.
Not sure why you're referring to it as the 'precious' OL It hasn't been precious for over 10 years, now that my friend is as lower standard as we will ever get. Hope that it is fixed moving forward and then next year we can draft ourselves another WR in round 1 or 2 and possibly some guy who knows how to take out an opposing QB another position that hasn't been 'precious' for so, so long.
Point is we dont complain about BPA unless the player is perceived to be less than a player we could have picked. Just think how enticing this defense would look if Q was the player he was at Alabama. He was a damn good player, was really a disruptive force. If he gets back to that player, we won't be crying about Allen nearly as much
I say precious b.c folks think OL is the only thing that matters, and in a game of balance it ALL Matters. Somehow the WR position cannot be discussed w.o folks mentioning OL. OL is good: Well Sam will have plenty of time to throw & we can scheme guys open OL is bad: It doesn't matter who is at WR if the QB is always on his back. Somehow..someway... OL & WR are mutually exclusive in alot of people's opinion. And 10 times out of 10 WR gets the short end of the stick. I would also argue that the OL was fine from 08-13(Minus Hunter), very good in 15 & passable in 16 & 17. It became deplorable over the last 2 years. Outside of 09/10 & 2015 the jets WR corps has been perpetually the worst in the NFL. But you'd never know it as an outsider visiting this board.
Well one could probably say if JD didn’t wind up with Mims then he would have selected another WR. As far as not taking a second WR I was a bit perplexed myself. All I can figure is there were a lot of holes and only so many picks. The WR position right now is in flux - it’s not a finished product and JD probably figured better value with whatever prospect he took at the point he took them. We have to learn to trust JD knows what he’s doing which I realize is hard to do considering what us Jets fans have been through over the years. I can see JD addressing WR with another high pick next year. And I also wonder what exactly the Panthers would ask for in a trade for Curtis Samuel - he’s young and seems to have put up good numbers.
