The Offensive Line Thread

Nobody knows how any of the tackles taken in round 1 will play. Pure speculation. Jets didn’t want the tackle at 14. At least not before McDonald. We know that

 

There is still time to pick up Jonah Williams from Cincy, who is holding out with a trade request

 

Zero sum games don't work in Pro sports. There are drafts and higher rated guys for a reason. If you feel like the Jets did ok that's fine. But to fundamentally question higher rated prospects and act like those prospects don't have a better chance to succeed, well that's just off.

And btw, McDonald looks like a project to me. Too thin. We'll see.

 

that never happened. we got a behind the scenes video. mcdonald was 1 on our board. mayer was 2, jones was 3. we weren't taking jones even if that trade didn't happen. JD even called that pitt was trading up to 14 for jones before it happened. he seen it coming and wasn't as high on jones as people thought

 

Do you have the video? Please share where he said exactly that.

If McDonald was #1 on the Jets board, then they are clearly missing the boat as always. Franchise QB. 50+ years and waiting. You protect him at ALL costs. A ton of patchwork band-aids is not the answer. Dumb move. Not good. The end.

 

I can’t recall where, but I did see that video of the draft room, and JD did say someone would trade up and he called Pitt and he called for Jones.

Now, editing is what it is, but the impression the video gave was that JD expected a trade ahead of us with NE, he expected it to be Pitt, and he expected Pitt to take Jones. Again, maybe it’s some slick editing or after the fact acting, but that’s what the video showed. I think it was attached as a link somewhere in this thread maybe?

In any case, we’ll probably never know for sure, because GM’s are not in the habit of showing their cards even after the draft, but it sure seems like JD is no moron…he knew the risk of trading down, he knew it may cost him a shot at one of the top 4 tackles, and he did it anyway. He says he rated McDonald higher and would have taken him anyway. We’ll never know if that’s honest or just GM-speak after the fact, but it is what it is.

Personally, I have no issue taking pass rushers early and often…they make a huge difference, and especially with the way Saleh runs this defense with a heavy rotation on DL, getting more pass rushers is not a bad thing. Shit, after years of ignoring the position literally since Parcells drafted Abraham back in the day (and yah, I am not forgetting the ultimate bust Gholston), I’m super excited to see JD go early and often on both OL and DL.

 

The Jets didn't exactly ignore the Edge in the draft they just prioritized the bigger guys in the 3-4. After the Gholston pick, which was a bust Edge, they drafted Wilkerson (5T) and Ellis (NT) in 2011, Coples (5T) in 2012, Richardson (5T) in 2013 and then Williams (5T) in 2015. All of the 5T's were hybrid Edges with pass-rushing and edge-setting responsibilities. The problem was that Rex's system was way different than the defense that Bowles wanted to run and both of them were player's coaches light on discipline and all of the guys they tried to adapt flunked the adaptation.

 

it's been posted on here a few times. you can look it up if you don't want to believe me.
you don't pick a lesser player out of a possible need. What if jones sucks and is out of the league in 3 years and mcdonald is all pro? thats why your comment makes no sense. You win by putting pressure on the other teams QB. we've invested a lot in the o-line in JDs tenure (3 years). 1st becton, 1st AVT, Top FA 4 time pro bowler tomlinson, Solid C FA mcgovern, 2nd OC tippman, 4th OT max mitchell, 4th OT warren.

thats 2 1sts, a 2nd, and 2 4ths in lineman plus a big free agent and a solid FA. he also added other stop gaps like brown and brought in good depth like schwietzer. you can only keep 9 maybe 10 lineman. we have so many as it is. so no it doesn't make sense to reach for an OT over an edge you consider to be special over a fan perceived need. guys like von miller have been more important to their teams success then any single OT in the NFL

 

Your comment makes no sense when you have an All Pro QB on the field. How do you resolve that with a bunch of patchwork, oft injured, journeyman OL?

The other stuff you're rambling on about is secondary to what I just stated.

 

I italicized "choose" in the snippet of your post from above. No one "chooses" to do something that is self destructive. It is a compulsion that one normally cannot stop without professional help. Willpower alone isn't enough in most cases. If one cares about others, those who suffer with compulsions such as overeating, drinking, gambling, sex, shoplifting, etc., need help and support, not condemnation and firing. The Jets make a big deal about caring for their players and building a culture, a family, where they have each other's backs and having accountability. Unless they are OK with being hypocritical, and dealing with the consequences of the message that sends to players in the NFL and in college, they needed to support Mekhi by holding him accountable and then trying to motivate him or help him to get professional help. That's not just for his career as a football player but for his life.

 

Tippman most likely IS a franchise OL.

All of the "top" 5 OTs were gone by the time the Jets picked at #15. In addition, the Jets couldn't afford to trade up this year, and none of the OTs in this draft were topflight "can't miss" prospects. They all have their flaws and things they need to work on. So who is this franchise OL that they should have drafted?

 

That was in video #2 of this season's "Ascension" series that the Jets put out.

"As always" is clearly hyperbole and wrong. Were "they" wrong last season with their draft? Was AVT a horrible pick? MC, MC II?

JD, the coaches and scouts know more than we do and their jobs are based on player evaluation. I'm certain that if they thought Jones was better than any of the OTs they already have they would have considered him more strongly. The thing is that the Jets have shown that they don't draft just for supposed need. Value must match with need. Even if they really liked one of the other higher-rated OTs, what were they supposed to do. Due to trading for Rodgers, they didn't have the draft capital to burn trading up for an OT. Luck plays a part in the draft. Last year everything fell just right for the Jets. This year, it didn't in the first round for the Jets to get an OT, but did in the 2nd where they got Tippman. The Jets have shown that more often than not, they are going to draft the BPA, not reach for a player out of need.

As far as it being patchwork bandaids, we will see. Brown is a solid, respected, still very good LT. AVT is on his way to becoming an All Pro. If Becton can stay health, he has HOF potential. Tippman is a perfect scheme fit and was the consensus best C in the draft. Tomlinson was All Pro just a few years ago and was consistently good in SF. He had a bad year last year, and we'll see if his play gets better this year. Schweitzer is an upgrade in the depth. Last season was supposed to be a redshirt year for Mitchell to learn and get stronger, yet he was forced to play and played pretty well for a while before his level of play tapered off and he then had to go on IR due to blood clots. Turner is a solid vet who knows the scheme and is versatile as is Schweitzer and AVT. This OL has the potential to be the best OL we've had since 2009 or 2010 when we had Damien Woody, Mangold, Brick and others. We also have a supposedly better OL coach this year.

 

Again there were higher rated prospects and the Jets continually to make bizarre draft choices.

What about the Jets current FO drafting OL has you believing what you're saying? Becton? NO. We'll se if he even stays healthy this year. Nothing in his NFL history to suggest that happening.

And no, Tippman looks solid but I much would've rather had Schmitz. Almost universally across the board Schmitz was the higher rated, more accomplished prospect in the same damn conference (B10). He looks like a potential pro bowler for years to come.

And the DE they got looks like he needs to add serious weight. Looks too light.

So all in all, their draft class was meh when it could've been a lot better.

I say the same thing every year prior to the Jets draft. Find the best, most provent prospects from the best schools. They should draft guys from Georgia, kinda like that great team down the Turnpike in Philly who is one of the favorites again this year in large part due to stacking up with Georgia studs. It's not rocket science unless you think the Jets way of building and drafting is better? I surely don't.

We'll see what happens. But the draft left a bad taste for me after getting Rodgers. They should do everything in their power to protect him. That should be the #1 goal for the squad this season.

 

Sorry, but it is my understanding that you're wrong about Schmitz. I thought the Jets wanted Schmitz because of all the conversations they had with him. Evidently, that was a ruse. Everything I've read since the draft indicates that they wanted
Tippman all along and he was the consensus top C in the draft by most experts. He is supposedly faster, more agile, and athletic than Schmitz and a better fit in our offense.

If Becton stays healthy, the OL will be much better. He's in great shape. If his attitude doesn't do him in, our OL will be better than average imo.

Weight is the easiest thing to fix in the NFL. The Jets said he was the best Edge prospect in the draft. He has elite bend and speed. None of the others in the draft do. He even played well at DT this past season. That's how strong, fast, and hard working he is. Until he proves me wrong, I'm going to trust JD and the Jets on McDonald.

It seemed "meh" to me as well at first, but after last year's draft, anything would have been anti-climactic. Our perceived biggest needs by fans and the media were OT, DT and Safety. None of the OTs were really topflight and they were all gone before our pick. That couldn't be helped. It really was not a good draft for DTs or Safeties. Keeanu Benton was the only DT I would have wanted early. It was either Tippman or Benton, and I'm glad that we got Tippman.

Who did you want that we didn't get?

 

Okay - I'm late for the party, but I'll play along.

The issue I have with this post is several. Let me clarify.

1. This post seems to suggest that different parts of the organization just do not communicate - the scouting department does their job, coaching staff is just coaching, front office is counting beans, etc etc.
2. What's more ludicrous is, every team has same set of criteria, with which they grade the prospects, i.e. every prospect would get the exact same grade on every scouting board.

First, I don't think how it works. Maybe that's how it worked during Idzik-led front office with Rex Ryan, but that's certifiably not true now. Aaron Rodgers himself can attest to that - he will emphasize "communication" on multiple levels, and he says he likes what he sees in the current Jets organization, unlike the Packers organization under Gutekunst.

Naturally, it's more than obvious that the inputs from the coaching staff must have gone into setting up the drafting board. Every team has different priorities, and different emphasis. It could be that Hackett saw it differently. (This is the most likely scenario. And he too must have had some input from his OL coach and RB coach.) He's the one that concocts offensive schemes and protection system after all. And the fact that Rodgers, coupled with Hackett, produced a fantastic production has to mean maybe Tippman is a better fit in this offense.

As for McDonald being too light - it is a concern, yes. But then, probably the coaching staff saw him the best fit for the team as well.

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All in all, it remains to be seen. Maybe McDonald will bust. Maybe the OL will crumble. Who knows?

 

I really hope you're right so we'll see. After watching some more college highlights and reading some scouting reports. Tippman looks like he's got some nice upside and potential. More than I previously gave him credit for. Love the size and athleticism. If he cuts down on the penalties and keeps his pads low he's got a shot to be good. I'm pulling for him to produce.

 

As am I. It's funny. Like you, I really wanted Schmitz, and I thought that 6'6" was too tall for a center, but I guess neither the scouts, JD, Hackett, or Saleh do. I'm rooting for all the draft picks, FAs, and UDFAs to succeed. I want there to be so many players the Jets love and feel excited about their potential, that the cuts become excruciatingly difficult and causes them all real anguish. That will most likely mean that we have a great team.

 

how do you resolve it by reaching for a player that may not even win the starting job? Jones wasn't even a good prospect. it was weak at the top for O-line. this was an odd draft class but in many classes jones is a 2nd or 3rd rounder. not a top 15 guy by any means. much better value in the 2nd and 3rd and not much of a drop off. wouldn't surprise me if jones is no better then warren when it's all said and done.

 

the funny thing is (and mostly agreeing with you here) that we could have traded up if we wanted jones. JD knew he was going 14 to pitt and called it. it only cost a 4th. we could have traded a 4th with NE for them to move back 1 pick or even jumped them to 13. The reality is we didn't want jones that bad and he's not a great prospect. If he was JD would have. just like when he traded up to get AVT out of nowhere or how he traded up to get JJ last year despite already having 2 1st round picks before him. JD has shown if he loves a player in the 1st he goes out and gets him. hell we even moved up for breece in the 2nd last year (made even more funny that MLF really wanted im and he's gone now) The reality is the jets didn't want jones. only fans did since our OT situation is to be fair questionable (lots of potential but also some question marks) and he was rated good enough by some to take at 15.