The thing is, I can get a RB lesser or equal to Fournette in the later rounds in terms of production. Just like Elliot from the Cowboys [w/ a top 2 line], Bears drafted Jordan Howard 2 rounds later and had a great rookie year. I agree, I want a core set of players as well. You can't address every position in 1 draft. I'll take Hooker [rd1] and Joe Mixon [rd2] for example. Far better then Fournette and a lesser prospect.
He took a QB who was playing at horrific levels in his last 2 years of college with a top 50 pick He should absolutely be toast. I'm not a big fan of Watson, but he's much better than Hackenberg.. The pro style offense argument isn't relevant to me, especially since the league has been moving to spread concepts. Not to mention. that you do numerous pro concept runs in these spread offense.
Where did I say that I wanted Watson? I actually think Kizer is the best QB in the draft. I'm objecting to the idea that drafting Watson and starting him over Hackenberg some how accelerates Mac's departure. Watson is likely to bust just like any other quarterback prospect. However, his median outcome and chances of becoming a quality starter are much better than Hackenberg's. Mac drafted Zach Mettenberger 2.0 in round 2.
"Chances are that Watson would play better than him next season given what we saw from both in college." I highly disagree, his velocity suggests he won't fit in NY with the winds and he needs to play in a dome. I don't see a scenario where a QB that can't make secondary reads consistently, plays in a spread would outplay Hack who has 1 year of NFL experience in terms of watching defenses and practices. Teammates are backing Hack and I think this is the direction the Jets should go for next year. No NFL team is running a true spread offense, so what you ran in college is very important as well. You still need to read the field prior and after the snap, you still need to make reads and Watson did not demonstrate the ability to do any of those. It was either first read or run.
To add, I do like Kizer, but not within the first round and if they feel Hack can start. Maybe if we trade down in the 2nd who knows.
I don't think people actullay know what their talking about when it comes it the x'os and progressions of what they deem to be a "pro style" offense vs a spread offense, so I won't be getting into that. Sure, it's nice that Hackenberg is backed his teammate.s I also saw Ryan Fitzpatrick get backed by his teammates last season and well we all know how that turned out. I wouldn't have taken Hackenberg with a 5th round pick, let alone a 2nd round pick. So my thinking that Waton would perform better than Hackenberg is not an indicator of praise for Watson. It's an indictment of Hackenberg's play.
So you know what you are talking about? Am I getting that right? You cannot call someone out in terms of that and not bring sufficient information / evidence to support your claim. If you read any scouting report on Watson, it clearly shows he doesn't go through his progressions. He looks then runs. I want to see what Hack can do, plain and simple. I want to see if Petty can rise to the challenge. We don't know where Hack was going to get drafted, other teams were interested. It's time to get our answers on these guys right now. I would take Kizer under certain circumstances.
it's not that i don't like hooker, I just want to see us start to build an offense for once. the last time i remember us having a good offense for more then 1 season was the 2 years of vinny T at QB and that was over a decade ago. we had 1 good year with chad, 1 good half year with favre, 1 good year with fitz since then. I don't think a safety at 6 is the way to turn this team around and we've used too many 1st round picks on defense in the past decade. the only one on offense i can think of was sanchez.
You can try to spin what you said but you were determined to convince everyone that Revis should stay and even if we paid his full salary it was worth it because he was so good. Actually if the D had shown up in the first half, we would have won that game. Not a Sanchez fan, but he is not the reason for the loss. This team needs help just about everywhere. It doesn't matter if the player selected at 6 is on the O or D. What matters is that he is an impact player who has a successful career as a Jet.
We have SO many holes to fill that I can't even begin to prefer offense over defense. There are players on each side of the ball that will be there at 6 that could help us. The only position I don't want is QB (none are worth 6) or DT (the one spot we are ok).
I agree with you on Hooker - he hasn't played that many games, and I'm leery of his injury potential. I also agree on not taking a Safety with the 6, unless MAYBE Adams who is probably "bust proof", but he's really more of a SS, and I think they need a FS more. And I agree about addressing the offense, BUT...I tried to prove my approach to myself, and tried to build a draft starting with Mahomes, but I couldn't then get the pass rusher and FS I wanted later unless there was a trade down adding more picks to the formula, but that might not happen. So, I value a stud pass rusher over a DB, even a FS, but the elite ones will be gone by their 2nd pick. I would take Reddick at 6 if Fournette is gone. Then I would hope that Mahomes falls to us with the 2nd pick. There's a greater chance - not a GREAT chance, but slightly better chance - that Mahomes slips, more so than a pass rusher like Reddick. The other alternative would be to take McCaffrey at 6, which I actually prefer, but again, finding that elite pass rusher or FS at 39 might be impossible. I'm now on the "trade down and get more picks" bandwagon. If they only had ONE pick, I would argue to take Mahomes with it because QB is the most important position, but they have 7 picks right now, and hopefully will get more premium picks, and in that case they need to add as much quality as they can, rather than go for the one Home Run. It's taken me a long while to accept this reality, but there it is.
yeah but i could easily say that we can get a safety as good as hooker in the later rounds as well. but that's not the reality at least during the draft. fournette is the best RB prospect since peterson (better then elliot, better then gurley etc) Hooker isn't considered the greatest prospect ed reed. guys like eric berry and earl thomas are considered much better prospects. in the draft where we trade down with the browns i have the jets taking CB kevin king (2), S Budda baker (3), CB Jalen Tabor (3), that should rebuild the secondary nicely. and we also get WR mike williams (1), TE David Njoku (2) so trading back and stocking picks would be the best option overall probably. Still I think we should go offense round 1. we either take fourntte (BPA) trub (best QB) or trade back and take the best offensive player still there at 12 and use the 2 extra 2nd day picks (1st in the 2nd round and 1st in the third round) and our 2 picks there (4 total for day 2) and split with offense and secondary. this draft is very deep for secondary and defense as a whole. lots of good players on defense can be had in the 2nd and later rounds but the drop off in offensive players is going to be steep
it's a higher chance then fournette according to scouts still we've picked too much defense in drafts as of late. sheldon, milliner, wilkerson, williams, pryor, wilson, have been our last 6 players picked i the 1st round. him and the offense was awful in the 1st half. in the 2nd half he played great but if the offense didn't get off to such a slow start and screw the defense we would have won. still revis even in his prime didn't make a difference. they just picked on our other CBs I'd rather have 4 solid CBs then 1 amazing one and 3 trash ones. it's a 3WR set league now 1 CB doesn't make the difference it used to trub is worthy of a top 5 pick in this draft, you may not personally think that but it's how the scouts see it. cleveland may be looking to jump over us to take him higher then 6 as it stands we have too much invested in mo, williams, and even richardson to think pass rusher. and we just drafted OLBs high in the past 2 drafts (jenkins and mouldin)
But see you look at the history of the draft and the best free safeties were taken in the first round, not in the later rounds. Look at the best in the league: Earl Thomas - 1st Round Eric Berry - 1st Round Harrison Smith - 1st Round Malcolm Jenkins - 1st Round Your assessment is incorrect. Now, scouts have said he's the best prospect since Earl Thomas. Some have compared him to the great Ed Reed, although those are lofty expectations and he will never meet those. Budda Baker is a good player [undersized, and not better at center field], but I think you are using far too many picks on the secondary, and I believe you do not value a great free safety prospect. A great FS prospect can mask deficiencies of the cornerbacks. I may spend the 6th with Hooker, go for offense the next 2 rounds then still pick up a valuable cornerback. That's rebuilding your roster as a whole. Getting several pieces. Also, Fournette is not a complete back, not nearly the 3 down back Elliot was in college. Fournette, good but overrated. Elliot was an amazing receiver and pass blocking HB. Fournette did not display that ability in college.
here is a list of the 1st round picks from our last 10 drafts 200714 Darrelle Revis CB Pittsburgh 10* 8 [31] 2008 6 Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State 5 2 30 Dustin Keller TE Purdue 5 5 [32] 2009 5 Mark Sanchez QB USC 7* 5 [33] 2010 29 Kyle Wilson CB Boise State 6* 5 [34] 2011 30 Muhammad Wilkerson DL Temple University 5* 5* [35] 2012 16 Quinton Coples DE North Carolina 4* 4 2013 9 Dee Milliner CB Alabama 3* 3 13 Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri 3* 3* 2014 18 Calvin Pryor S Louisville 2* 2* 2015 6 Leonard Williams DT USC 1* 1* 2016 20 Darron Lee LB Ohio State -* -* 10 defensive players and 2 offensive players Busts gholston keller sanchez wilson coples milliner Good picks Revis wilkerson williams richardson (his play and talent is there minus the off field issues) Jury still out Pryor Lee So out of the 10 picks we have a final answer on 6 were busts. that's why we are where we are. out of the good picks 3 play the same position so one of them (richardson) is likely gone this year or next. williams is a stud and wilk was before the injury so hopefully he bounces back. the fact we haven't used a single 1st round pick in the last 7 years (8 picks thanks to the revis trade) is a sign we need to focus on offense this draft. statistically speaking we've had a top 10 offense the better part of the last decade, we've had a top 10 offense 1 year in that span (last year barely) The draft 11 years ago? we took furgeson 4th overall and mangold 29th overall (pick from abraham trade) not sexy at the time but both players were pro bowlers and here for the better part of the decade and anchored an o-line that had a top run game for many years. I don't think a person here would say a bad thing about brick or mangold over their career here. it was one of our best drafts in the past 20 years or so easily just becuase of those 2. we also got washington (a pro bowl KR and great 3rd down back) eric smith (a solid safety that started for us for a few years) brad smith (great KR and gadget player for a few years) All in all, the reality is the best teams find great players in the late rounds. many of the best players were drafted in the 3rd or later rounds. we never seem to find those gems
fournette is a 3 down back but i'm not going to bother with that for now i'll focus on the safety aspect kam chancellor ring a bell? i said the jets should have grabbed him in the later rounds and he's one of the best in the NFL (drafted in the 4th round IIRC) Landon collins? 2nd round pick in 2015 in the 2016 season he made the probowl and was arguably the top safety (definitely top 3) last season pro bowl safeties from 2017 pro bowl darian stewart (replaced the injured berry) undrafted eric weddle 2nd round (replaced mccourty cause SB) landon collins (2nd round) so yeah the majority was 1st round but like any position you can find many good ones later. do we not remember rhodes(4th round)? before all the personal life BS he was a probowl safety for us and the cardinals. bob sanders? one of the best in the NFL for a long time was a 2nd rounder I value a great free safety for sure but this team needs to put points on the board. sustaining drives will take pressure off the defense. it's hard to have a good defense when they spend 45 mins on the field out of 60 and start drives protecting their own red zone because of turnovers. The NFL has become much more of an offensive league then defensive league. look how many game winning drives the best QBs have against the best defenses. plus there is a very good free safety we can take a chance on if we dump richardson for cap room during the draft (byrd) who plays a great centerfield and creates turnovers.
Kam Chancellor and Landon Collins are strong safeties, not Free Safeties. Nice try. And let's talk Fournette, what makes you think on film he showed the ability to catch and pass protect better then Elliot coming out of college? Guessin you didn't watch Elliot beast it up during the college football playoffs.
