The Jets are 1/2 of a Team

I think our running game won't end up being quite as effective as you suggest, but I also think our passing game has a chance to be better than you suggest. Not a bad write-up, though.

 

Nick Foles says hi. [True, he has more weapons at his disposal, in a system much more friendly to QBs - but make no mistake, his team lacks defense. Once he flops, his defense can't bail him out. Like Jets D did for the past half decade with Sanchez and Geno. So what are the Jets doing with QBs?]

How about Roethlisberger?

Hell, I wouldn't mind the turnovers if we were still playing 80's football. With the way this team is set up, we don't really need a pretty QB that will light up the stat sheet. Just, that's not the case any more. You must manage the risk each and every play. If you can't do that as a QB, then you are doomed to a failure. Geno thus far has shown he can't do just that yet - especially in crunch time. Now, add his other fundamental problems, starting from the footwork to throwing mechanics to whatnot. Is that the kind of investment you want to make for the future of this team? Unless Geno shows more, I'd start looking elsewhere. [That's what this season should be in a nutshell - to see if Geno can go over the hump.]

 

No team drafts offensive "talent" that f-ing sucks quite like ours.

Stephen Hill, Brian Winters, Joe McKnight, Tajh Boyd, Kyle Brady, Anthony Becht, Johnny Mitchell, Johnny "Lam" Jones, Roger Vick, Reggie Rembert, Alex Van Dyke, Scotty McKnight, Glenn Foley, Greg McElroy, Browning Nagle, Vlad Ducasse, etc.

Jets could draft a WR in the 1st round for the next 30 years and still not land an elite WR. We've had 1 (arguably) in the last 20 years in Keyshawn Johnson and he was the #1 overall pick.

The front office -- Teflon Bradway and Co. -- has zero eye for offensive talent. It's an absolute joke.

Even when by some minor miracle they strike a little nugget out of nowhere with a guy like Danny Woodhead, they cut him loose (to be picked up by NE) in favor of USC scrub Joe McKnight.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not personal with me. When I respond to a post I pay little attention to whom it was written by. Even when I notice who did write it, it doesn't mean much to me, because there are too many posters and I have too much going on to remember what every poster's philosophy, likes/dislikes, etc. are.

Now on to your post.

IMO, we haven't had a dominant D since Rex got here. We've had a very good one, but it's never been dominant. There have been many times when our D needed a stop and couldn't get it. They have been blown out numerous times. They haven't kept many teams below 10 points.

Teams have learned Rex's blitzes. It's most definitely true. They seldom work any more unless it's against a bad team. They aren't able to generate consistent pressure on opposing QBs. IMO no D is dominant unless it can generate consistent pressure on opposing QBs, can consistently make the big stops, and create TOs (another huge failing by the Jets' D).

I have little hope for Reilly. He's already 27, not that fast, and is limited athletically. IMO he will never be more than a backup or stopgap starter.

Getting a true pass-rushing OLB must be a priority for the Jets if they ever have any realistic hopes of going anywhere in the postseason. IMO it doesn't matter how solidified the CB position becomes, if the Jets don't have a true pass rush, they're not going anywhere. How many division championships did the Jets win with Revis? If not for a few lucky breaks, the team would never have even made the playoffs in 2009.

The one thing that we agree on is that Geno has to show this year whether he is the answer at QB or not. I don't agree with you at all that he will never be a good QB. You state it with such finality and certainty, and I think that's ridiculous. You don't have bad accuracy and complete 82% of your passes in a game.

I totally disagree with you regarding Rex. Calling him a SB caliber HC is simply laughable imo. He made it as far as he did because of the boost that players' coaches get following a strict HC and because the league didn't know his schemes yet. Now that those things are gone, he is not faring nearly as well. As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on MM. IMO topflight OCs don't screw around with gimmicks like the wildcat and mess with their starting QB's rhythm. They don't have their 3rd string TE on the field for a crucial play at the end of a half. They don't abandon what's working extremely well in a game and go ultra-conservative on the road and play "not to lose". They don't have both QBs on the field and line one up out wide. That's utter and total BS and an embarrassment.

It's obvious that we see things VERY differently. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I agree with this. Jets D was pretty good, but was it a dominating force? When?

Again, I agree with this. Tebow game - Jets allowed Tebow to march 90+ yards at the last minute. Sure, there are some factors that needs to be considered, like Sanchez [or Geno for that matter] constantly turning the ball over at most inopportune time, etc. But the Jets D got blown out pretty consistently as of late. They rarely hold any offense under 3 scores if they are anywhere better than the middle-of-the-pack.

This we agree too - but this will not come to fruition, as Rex just does not believe in this simple concept. I am getting fed up with Rex on this issue. I do not agree with him at all. To me, LBs must be able to chase down the ball carrier and tackle. They shouldn't have to take on offensive linemen. I don't know what's with Rex's infatuation with big, slow OLBs that look more like a converted DE than an actual OLB. I am just sick and fed up with that. I can't think of a single season where Jets had a big and fast OLB that could terrorize any offense in the backfield. Jets never had such a talent [1], never signed such a talent [2] or never drafted one. [3]. That's strike three. John Abraham from Herm Era is the last good pass rusher Jets ever had in recent memory. This has to stop.

And the dire absence of speed in the LB corp is hurting the integrity of the entire defense in a rather huge way. In a nutshell, this is why Jets can't get that key stop in crunch time.

We'll see how it pans out. I'd like to think that, if Sanchez was operating in WCO, he wouldn't have been mired in sub-60% completion ratio either. Jets during Sanchez's early days in NY essentially played 80's football - in 2009. They almost pulled it off, but the defense wasn't good enough to win it all.

And I still see these bad turnovers from Geno. If Jets do not get any better than 8-8 this season, that surely will tell us where Geno is.

WCO is all about situational football - about making a winning situation, and not losing a won game. MM blew it once this season, if you may. His tenure in Detroit was a disaster, so we will see. He surely is an improvement over the train wreck that is Tony Sparano, but that isn't enough, right?

And... I'd like to think Rex is a very capable coach, but will he ever win the big one? I am starting to have a doubt. His product, and meal ticket is his defense, and I am starting to notice a glaring hole in his approach [his LBs.] If I am seeing this, NFL coaches are seeing this too.

 

our pass game has been far from the worst in the league this year? it's been average to slightly above average so far.

 

Gez you're on a roll lately. Excellent post. Lemme see is there anything I might disagree with here? Perhaps some minor quibble?

Well I do have some issues with Ryan, such as that it took him so long to get a decent OC, which imo we more than have now. His hiring of Sparano and his sticking with Sanchez too long would have been adequate grounds to fire him. But that moment passed, and Ryan did bring a 4 win team to an even record last year, albeit with a big dose of luck. But still. Now he has an OC to match him, and more to hte point it's clear enough to me that the biggest problems for the Jets are with the roster.

One thing's for sure around here ever since I started posting. Whether people have varying degrees of knowledge and insight in other areas, too many have no perspective on the level of talent available for OC's in the NFL. You can't just fire someone who you think made a mistake with a playcall. Who you gonna replace him with? As you say, Sean Payton already has a better job than being OC for the Jets. Imo there was no question that Marty was the best available OC in 13 to replace the truly awful Sparano who, if anyone needs reminding, came to the Jets after cutting ties with Schotty. Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire and all related metaphors. Doesn't anybody remember that shit show?

In fairness there are many areas of difference between the Seahawks and the Jets. But yes, the defending champs rely on an excellent roster in their secondary, something you can't begin to say about the Jets.

I also like the point about how NFL teams can't simply identify a specific need like pass rushing OLB and expect that player will fall into their laps in the draft.

 

Did you know that in his 5th start Tom Brady completed 16 of 20 passes for 202 yards and 3 TD with 0 Interceptions to beat Peyton Manning on the road in Indianapolis?

Did you know that in his 5th start Geno Smith completed 16 of 20 passes for 199 yards and 3 TD with 0 Interceptions to beat Matt Ryan on the road in Atlanta?

It's so interesting how things stack up sometimes.

Brady of course had a year on the bench before that to watch the NFL in action. He'd come out of a pro offense at Michigan. He had a year and a half including 2 training camps under Charlie Weis to that point.

I actually have no idea if Geno is going to come through for us at a high enough level in the end. If he does though there's going to be a crow-eating festival and a few outright trolls unlikely to show their faces on TGG again (you not being in that group.)

 

Imo the key term in your post is "high enough". What will be high enough is a matter of debate. In the short run I think we need to see Smith become more comfortable and effective behind center, as a progression that develops with some reasonable amount of improvement as the season goes on. He otherwise is too much of a limiting factor in the overall effectiveness of the offense.

Medium term, to be specific if he makes it that far by next year, he needs to escape the bottom third of Qb rankings.

Long term he has to become an average NFL starting Qb.

If he can't do those things, I don't understand the sense of keeping him around.

 

Man you are the anecdotal king…LOL

 

The best thing that Geno has going for him in the eyes of Jets fans is that he is not Sanchez. That will last but so long if the turnovers keep coming.

 

No doubt that is big for Smith. But another perhaps not as huge factor is that Jet fans more or less see Smith as joined at the hip with Idzik. Imo Milliner's shaky start undermines the confidence people would otherwise have in Idzik coming out of the Richardson pick being so effective. (Of course there I tend to give credence to the informal reports that Richardson was someone Ryan really wanted.) So we tend to drop to the next pick, which of course is Smith who went on last year to have such a mostly awful performance, with some improvement at the end. And we all saw the FO in effect choose to stick with Smith for at least this season.

Aside from the general desire in the fanbase to have one's starting Qb succeed, imo those who in effect are Idzik fans know that his standing with the team is very much tied in with how well Smith does. If Smith fails, even those who would still be inclined to stick with Idzik know it will be harder, that he will face more criticism, and even for them may add doubts whether we are on the right course with Idzik. However much they deny the magnitude of the problem as being severe, they know already that big questions are being raised about his handling of the Cb situation. Add a failure by Smith this season, and they know we ain't seen nothing yet when it comese to questions about Idzik.

So there's that, too. It's a recognition that not only Smith's future is tied in with how well he does, or doesn't do.

 

The bold may be true, but I have no idea why. Even though he's not been treated like one, Geno was still a 2nd round draft pick. Why would/should Idzik's standing with the team be tied to him? That's never been the case throughout the history of the NFL. Was Tanny fate tied to Kellen Clemens? The way Jets fans view Geno is so weird to me. The Sanchez effect is the only thing I can think of to explain it.

 

I get your point, but it's not just that he was picked on Idzik's watch. There is also the very distinct impression that Idzik has his fingerprints all over the decision to go into this year with Smith as the starting Qb.

 

Funny stuff. I don't drink Merlot and it's too hot for turtlenecks, red or any other color. Unlike some other posters here, I don't post in the nude. ;-)

IMO a "dominant" defense doesn't necessarily mean one of the best of all times, just one that is consistent and closes out games. The Jets D doesn't qualify. Maybe it did in 2009, but that's ancient history. Since you are so fond of looking at that year, let's look at the playoff loss to the Colts. The Jets' defense did dominate for most of the first half. Then the Colts adjusted and Rex and the Jets' D had nothing. IMO a "dominant" defense would have had an answer for the adjustments the Colts made, not been steamrolled in the 2nd half.

In looking at last week's game, almost all of the Jets' pressure on Rodgers came in the first half when the Jets were building their lead. They got little pressure from the end of the first half through the 2nd half. Once GB adjusted, Rex and the Jets' D had nothing. Those are facts. I have a hard time believing that the Seahawks only pressured Rodgers 8 times. GB's offensive line was totally inept vs the Seahawks. The Seahawks' D play smart, tough, are disciplined, create TOs, and they don't beat themselves. Rex's D can play lights out at moments, but they frequently don't play smart, they are undisciplined, they beat themselves with stupid mistakes, and they rarely create TOs. I agree with you that the secondary is in definite need of upgrading, especially with the way Rex insists on playing D. He seems unwilling or incapable of adjusting and going with more zone coverage in the secondary and his schemes or his players all too infrequently are incapable of generating any real pressure on opposing QBs unless their blitzes work. Those are facts. Upgrading the secondary may be the quickest way to upgrade the level of the defense's play, but the quickest way isn't always the best. Precisely because the OLB position has mostly been ignored for the last decade, it's damn well time that it be addressed. The OLB positions are the most important in a 3-4 D alignment. The only other position that comes close is the NT position, but that fact seems to have eluded Rex, Tanny and now Idzik. If they don't address it significantly in next year's draft, I hope the whole lot of them are fired. I'm sick of it.

With regard to Geno, I think you are wrong, period. I have seen him make many great throws with pinpoint accuracy, and I think he has the potential to become a great QB. I truly believe that most of his struggles are due to the way he was handled last season. There's no way he should have been starting last year. He needed to focus solely on his footwork, taking snaps from under center, learning the WCO, and adjusting to life in the NFL. Because Rex is totally inept with handling QBs and offense and because Tanny had screwed the Jets with Sanchez and the team with the cap, there was little Idzik could do. Sanchez was a walking disaster. He had lost whatever confidence he had and Jets fans hated him. There was no realistic way that he could have started last year and Geno sat. If Geno doesn't wind up becoming a very good, if not great QB, then I blame it on the Jets and the gross incompetence of their owner, HC and previous GM.

Rex is a very good DC, but a lousy HC imo. Nothing you say will ever change that. Rex is a much better HC than Kotite, but my disdain for Rex is on the level of my disdain and disgust with Kotite. I take no pleasure in that. I was elated when Rex was hired, not only because of his Jets connection through his father, but also because of his energy, his skills as a DC, and the fact that he wanted to be the HC of the Jets. He destroyed all of that by creating a circus here and showing that he was just a big-mouthed clown. For all his tough, brash talk, he couldn't back his words up, and went the going got tough in games, he frequently turned into a clueless pussy. He hasn't held players accountable, is undisciplined and allows his team to beat itself with stupid penalties and mistakes. After his creativity with his overload blitzes and the "amoeba" alignment, he's had nothing new or creative. IMO the fact that the team has done as well as it has these last several years, speaks more to the parity and current environment in the NFL than it does Rex's coaching prowess. The Jets have never been a true powerhouse team since he's been the HC. I know a lot of the blame for that goes on Tanny, but one could make the claim that you give any HC in the NFL a lot of the right kind of talent and their team will become a dominant one and a true SB contender. I now despise the sight of him and won't be truly happy with this team again until he is gone.

I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your post because you brought the level of discussion down with your insults and comments about "being on crack", "whining" etc. You're everything that's wrong with some football fans. You think you know everything, and you can't discuss things in a civil, respectful manner with someone who sees things differently than you, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time reading and responding to your posts. I guess I should have known that someone who is classless enough to have a play on "golden showers" as his name on this site wasn't worthy of spending my time trying to have an intelligent, civilized discussion. I think you're a cretin. Piss off (or get pissed on) to your pleasure. Have a nice life.

 

Even so, I still don't Idzik is tied to Geno in the manner many suggest. Idzik is in a great position right now. Idzik can force Geno down Rex's throat, Geno can fail miserably and Idzik can still fire Rex. Then he can proceed to draft another QB. If it were to play out the way I just outline, that next QB will be the one his fate is tied to. Remember Geno fell in his lap. Had he maneuvered in some way to get Geno in the draft, then I see tying them together. The only 2 ways I can see them legitimately being tied is a) Geno becomes a bonafide franchise QB or b) Geno is just good enough to remain the starter but is then constantly compared to Sanchez, who is garnering success else where. I called that the Junc scenario. Then I could see, especially in this market, Idzik being forever tied to Geno due to the ground swell of hindsight criticism that would come for getting rid of Sanchez for Geno.

 

We dont have complete information. But I do think Woody has an awareness of how much going with Smith is respectively on Ryan or Idzik. But let's say it's much more on Idzik. Let's go on to say they stick with Smith who fails, and the Jets do not make the playoffs as a result.

Is it really so clear in such a scenario that Woody will absolve Idzik, and let him fire Ryan? I don't think so.

Having said all that, I appreciate this is all rather speculative and would depend on much too much happening that is unknown as of now. But I do think there are scenarios where a failure by Smith will hurt Idzik's standing.

 

You are giving Woody a lot of football savvy that I don't know he has. Let's just say this, if Geno fails, I'd much rather be in Idzik's shoes than Rex's. I know it sounds backwards but that's just a product of the climate we are in. Idzik is still in the honeymoon phase; he can't do wrong in the eyes of the majority of fans and I bet ownership alike. Rex is on his last leg, final life of his many lives as the Jets HC. Rex's been through 3 OCs, 2 DCs, 2 QBs and 2 GMs; I can't see any scenario where that last number turns to 3 no matter the Wood the owner packs for him.

 

lol, love the diabolical imagery!

agree with your post too regarding these lofty definitions of 'dominant' defensive play in today's NFL, as well as having the correct coaching staff in place for this team.