Obviously Geno has to cut down on the turnovers. That said, he's throwing the ball almost 40 times per game in Marty's offense and he's been widely considered to be a raw-but-talented player. The Jets aren't hiding him like they did Sanchez, he's the focal point of their offense and growing pains should be expected when he's in essence learning how to play QB on the fly. More time handling the ball = more chances for turnovers. More time handling the ball also = more experience so I think, in the long run, it's a good thing.
+1. After the first game, Bob Wischusen and Marty Lyons said it best(paraphrasing ofc): "We may not know what Smith can do after one season, much less one game, but at least there's hope." No one's a fan of turnovers or mistakes (be it from a rook or a vet), but it's the only way to figure out whether Smith has what it takes to be successful. The Jets FO is displaying uncharacteristic patience to figure out the type of talent and assets that it has in-house. Rebuilding through the draft and smart, lower cost acquisitions will certainly take more time than the Tannenbaum method of throwing out money. For one, I'm a fan of this change in attitude and business, and while I reserve the right to be skeptical about the FO's decisions, I'm willing to match their patience with my own.
Not to mention the hits he is taking. He is getting killed being left out on an island with no protection. Our OL was 27th ranked in pressure % coming into last weeks game. It is safe to say we are even worse after 4 games. The last 4 years our line has been at the top of the league in least QB hits and pressures allowed now we are at the bottom. Part of the OL regression is moving from a run 1st offense protecting a weak QB to a pass 1st put the game on the QB offense but there is also a large drop off from Slausson/Moore to Ducasse/Colon. The OL regression combined with our new pass 1st offense relying on deep balls would make it difficult for any QB to survive. I have not seen a Jet QB hit as much last week since O'Brien. MM needs to dial it back and protect this kid from these beatings and from himself. He cannot keep taking shots down the field all game long with our OL and exposing this kid to David Carr type beatings. The kid also needs to be protected from himself. He is a competitor and a play maker. He wants to make plays but trying to do to much leads to bad plays. Just as we need to protect him from the physical beating he is taking each week we need to protect him mentally from trying to do to much. Remember the Tampa game when McCoy said I was sure that the hits I was putting on the kid would make him give up. They didn't against Tampa but at the end of the Tenn game you could see the kid was mentally frazzled and it was noticeable that it was taking geno longer to get up after each hit. When and if the kid learns to read defenses better, make faster decisions, gets a better comfort zone in the pocket and can get rid of the ball faster then we can expose him more to the rush and put the game more on his shoulders. He may have a strong arm, great accuracy throw some very pretty passes, and already be a big improvement over Sanchez but he is not Peyton manning or even anything close to a top tier QB. Asking him to carry the team in a pass 1st offense with a much weaker OL than we have seen in a long time is suicide for the kid and for the team.
Do you realize how good Tannenbaums first draft was? Let me remind you: Ferguson Mangold Clemens Brad Smith Leon Washington Drew Coleman He made a move in year 3 and we had arguably the best team in the league before Favre got hurt. We went to back to back AFC Finals with a terrible QB. Tannenbaum took a shot at the ring. He just missed. Idzik hasn't done shit yet. Clemens was a bust, Geno might be a bust? Both of them were 2nd round picks.
Think Geno looked bad last week wait to see how he looks without Hill and Holmes. Not looking good for Geno or the Jets. The only chance we have is to take the air out of the ball and win close one in the fourth quarter.
Enough with this BS stat Geno is getting hit so much because he holds the ball to long. Geno Smith average time in pocket: 3.32 seconds, second-highest in league, per @PFF
Rex has gotta step in and put this kid on "game manager" duty @ ATL cause he cannot be throwing post routes for INT's the 2nd play of the game cause the falcons have tape on his passing and will end it quick like like titans did. We are gonna be done after a few of Geno's mistakes. Turnovers lose games. Flat out. Geno is clearly a project. We do not have the protection to help him.
I don't see Geno taking sacks from spending to much time in the pocket. He just extends plays. He does a great job of throwing the ball away. The problem he has had have been on a few plays where he panicked. Not panic in the Sanchez sense where the QB freezes or closes his eyes and runs blindly. But Against Tampa he had a couple of unnecessary sacks where he got immediate rush and tried to run backwards to save the play, Against Tennessee he had the two horrible plays on the screen passes. But you could see him trying to kill the ball but afraid to throw it so close the GL as he might ge a grounding. Here in both plays he was trying to do to much and inexperienced. Generally when a QB trues to do to much bad things happen. But for the most part he has handled pressure extremely well. His BDR bad decision rate is 1/2 of what Sanchez's was last year. He is mostly making good decisions. The problem is 3 fold. He is the centerpiece of the offense and being asked to carry the team. He is a in deep passing pass 1st offense. The line has been terrible allowing pressures on over 31% of passing snaps. You don't do this to a rookie QB. He may be much more advanced than Sanchez during his rookie year but you do not expose a rookie to that many hits and that many times where he will be tempted to do to much. Geno like all rookies needs to be protected from the rush and protected from himself. You don't just throw a rookie out there and say hey kid pass every down, win the game by yourself and oh btw defense hut him as much as you want. They are painting a target on the kids back. Ease the kid into it. With our defense there is no reason to ask him to win the game by himself and run such a pass 1st offense. There is no reason to throw deep sp often and expose him to that many hits. There is no reason to put him into a position where he will be tempted to try to do much. I understand that penalties and circumstances have put us into many passing situations. But sometimes its just better to punt and put the game on the defense and protect the rookie from hits and from himself.
BDR. Yet another subjective and irrelevant stat invented by ESPN. Some day the real stats will be ignored for the fictitious ones that the Ministry of Sports Propaganda decides should matter.
The Jets have a real conundrum to work out with Geno and the new offense. The more they try to protect him the less likely that the offense will develop acceptably over the course of the season. In other words we'll wind up in the same place we were with Sanchez in 2009, with a QB being protected and an offense that is hamstrung by that necessity. The difference between 2009 and 2013 of course is that the Jets have nowhere near the overall talent level on the line or in the skill players that they had in 2009. That offensive line was one of the best offensive lines the Jets have ever had and it was one of the best lines of the last decade or so. The skill players weren't world beaters but they were solid all around after Braylon Edwards came on board. This year the offensive line is a work in progress with probably all 5 slots worse than they were in 2009 by a significant margin, Mangold and D'Brick because they have to cover frequently for the people around them. The skill position players are just weak and they're also banged up. So going to a "protect Geno at all costs" approach is just going to shut down the offense most likely. Not to 2009 levels, to 2012 levels. So what do the Jets do? Do they let Geno stand out there in the open and take the big hits and the media assholes snickering at him and the Jets? Do they protect him and likely make the team worse in the process? It's frying pan and fire for the rookie at this point and it's going to take some really smart work by Mornhinweg and Rex to steer through this. Editing just to say: the minute the Jets put Geno in a cocoon they are going to start seeing 8 men in the box and the running game is likely going to die and then things will get really hairy. It's easy to blitz out of 8 men in the box. I don't actually think Geno is going to be all that much more protected in the cocoon than he is with the Jets forcing both safeties to stay back.
I think they let Geno stand out there and take the hits--and I don't give a shit about the media. If this kid shows some real ability in the face of extreme adversity then you know you have something. If there is ANY doubt you MUST take a QB next year in round 1--there are anywhere from 3 to 6 guys that could be franchise QBs coming out. We picked a QB in a weak year for QBs, but got a windfall by Geno being there in Rd 2 (where he should have gone). If he shows real ability you build around him--if he doesn't you have to get one of those guys next year. _
Excellent post. It is a fine line between protecting to much and just enough. In 09-10 Sanchez because of his mistake rate was not allowed to throw often on 3rd down and when he did throw it was restricted to quick short passes. Protecting him from losing the game for us. I don't think anyone wants that kind of protection for Geno as he has shown his level of play is much more advanced. What we can do is mix up the run more often. Less deep passes especially in passing situations. Geno has made some big 3d and long conversions but giving up some of those to take less risk is not necessarily a bad thing. I would much rather see the burden to win the game be shifted more to the defense and play with the attitude that punting is not a terrible thing. Let Geno take some shots down the field. He has amazing accuracy. But set those shots up more with short passes and runs. He took the Bills out of 8 men in the box by burning them on deep passes. He can still do that but just be more selective. Deep passes leave him exposed in the pocket taking a lot of hits that can be avoided with a more balanced gameplay. I understand its a QB 1st league. But I think its more appropriate to go pass 1st and put more of the game on Geno's shoulders after he has gotten more experience. After he has learned to be more decisive, after he has learned to read defenses better, after he has learned to move better in the pocket, after he has learned better how to handle stressful situations and not try to do to much and after he has learned to get the ball out quickly. I am not saying he needs to have the mind and understanding of Peyton Manning but he needs to move more on the learning curve before we leave him out there alone and unprotected all game long which has been what we have been doing. Especially when you consider the state of our OL If and when he makes that mental progress he has the accuracy and arm to be very good. But I would argue for now he needs to be protected from the hits and himself. Where he can learn and not be asked to do to much and carry the team. I thought his remark was telling after the game. Where he said I am learning that this is different than College and that I do not need to do it all and that I can rely on my defense to win games. Yes that is great but until he can show he truly understands we need to limit his exposure to making those mistakes. Not limiting in the sense that Sanchez needed to be limited. But yes your right its a fine line. But right now we to far over the line and Geno is taking to much of a beating physically and mentally. Looking at our schedule this will just get worse unless they limit his exposure and balance out our attack.
Eventually, things will slow down for him and he will understand what he can and cannot due. Let's not forget, this man did not get many first team reps as he split them with MS. I thought he played within himself against a tough MOTIVATED Bucs team, and took full advantage of the Bills secondary. It's a funk, it's a learning experience. If he is still turning the football over twice a game after the bye, more than likely we have a bad situation. For now, keep the game plan JUST AS IT IS. Let's see if he grows. Geno wasn't ready to start week 1, some of us already knew that. He's the starter now and there's no turning back this season. We need to see what he has to offer - otherwise with our first round pick, we will draft another QB.
Exactly, a rookie QB is a rookie QB. They're unpredictable and unproven. So, it's stupid to try and judge their future by their first few games. That's what makes the Peyton argument such a good one. Geno is Geno. Geno can become a good QB however, maybe not Peyton-good but still a good QB. Geno has gotten thrown into a system where he isn't making little throws. Geno is also throwing the ball deep, and does not have the training wheels on, which is what you've seen from some rookie QBs over the past few years. So naturally, you'd expect more mistakes with that kind of leeway. What Peyton did as a rookie is only an example of how good QBs take time to develop, and how you can't just give up on them after a few bad games. If you don't like the Peyton example, how about Alex Smith? Eli Manning? Flacco?
Funny I remember all these excuses with Sanchez, he's a rookie, next year will be the wide receivers an offensive line, year 3 will be OC and QB coach, blah blah
It was not confirmed that Sanchez was terrible and needed to go until 2010. I think we all gave Sanchez the benefit of the doubt in 09 and most of 10 even though he was horrible both years. It was only after 10 that it became pretty evident that once the training wheels would be taken off that Sanchez was going to implode. The difference here I see is the Sanchez pyscopaths will not give the next QB any leeway as it destroys their fantasy image of Sanchez. Geno may or may not work out but he deserves the same chance. But so far he has so much more going for him than Sanchez. Sanchez had to be protected from his own mistakes. Sanchez was not allowed to throw the ball often on 3rd down in 09-10 to protect the team from his mistakes. Sanchez has always needed a strong running game to have a chance of completing a pass. Sanchez realistically only has ever had a chance of completing a pass when his receiver is essentially uncovered. Sanchez does not have the arm or accuracy of Geno. Sanchez never showed the ability bounce back after mistakes. Nor the ability handle a rush or pressure. Geno may or not work out. It is way to early to say. But I think we can say without question he is a much more advanced QB than Sanchez was in 09-10 and is a much better QB right now than Sanchez has ever been. But again that is not saying much as we are comparing Geno to one of the worst QBs to ever play the game. It is one of the things we need to stop and think when we are impressed by how good Geno looks. Does he look good because he is good or simply because we are comparing him to Sanchez. The bottomline is he has shown a lot of promise that one rarely sees form a rookie QB. He will likely improve during the year and a lot during next off-season. I care less abut where he is now and much more about where he will be when we start next year. Assuming he survives the beatings he will take. The next 5 games look brutal.
LOFUKINGL. I like Geno but this is the most obvious hate- agenda filled bullshit post I've seen on the board and the rest of the post was just hyperbole driven by hate. Well done Mr. Subjective. _
