You guys make a lot of excuses for Holmes. The fact is his stats have dropped every year since 2010 when he got paid. He was given Captain title, where he failed. Even, future hall of fame Tomlinson said that Holmes was a bad teammate. It was a terrible contract that will end up costing the Jets Revis. And the Jets will keep the gift that keeps on giving, 'Tone time baby! Let's do it again!
I'm not putting all of the blame on Holmes, but if he was the veteran presence that everyone made him out to be, certain fundamentals would of been taught and we would of seen an improvement throughout the season. Hill looked as raw as raw could be, I love the kid's potential though. He'll be fine with a few off-season workouts. Again, he accepted the contract, that's fine and dandy - I just never felt he was a good fit for the team. I wish he proved me wrong in 2011 by actually putting FULL effort for a full 16 games, but I didn't see that. I don't see that happening in 2013 either.
Thinking that because the O sucked the year before means it will automatically suck the next year too is also a bit deranged. MM replacing Sparano is already one improvement. Cutting or trading Tebow may be addition by subtraction. The O may end up being completely different in scheme and personnel. There are too many variables between now and next year to really know if getting rid of Holmes is a good or bad move. We still have FA/draft and we have no idea what we may get from Holmes coming back from injury. I can tell you right now I would not be upset if a guy like Quinton Patton is manning the roster spot currently held by Holmes.
Again, your overvaluing the effect of a vet presence to improve the play of others and I don't think many around here are claiming Holmes is a good vet for the kids. By the logic your using. LT was a horrible teammate because green can't make people miss and Mckinght still has fumble problems. Tomlinson must have been the bad locker room guy because of the play of the rest of the running backs right? See how silly that sounds? Even those that defend Holmes talent admit he's a dick. Just don't go planing other receivers issues on him. Chances are in 2014 he is not around and the same for Sanchez. Untill that happens I'm hoping both of them can play better this year and keep us competitive in games.
I love posts like this. Makes it easy to tell who pays attention during the games and those who don't.
Holmes improved the play of others? I sure didn't see that with Hill, Chaz, or Gates. Kerley is a possibility. I'm not too sure about that though. When Brandon Moore and LT call you out, you know there's an issue, and there's no anonymous source behind that one that's for sure. Regarding the LT comparison also, Hill catching the ball with his hands is a fundamental issue, he had the same problem all year, where was Holmes with his veteran leadership? I think Greene became a better player because of LT, hell maybe Powell also. They actually started producing week in and week out even though it wasn't at the level we expected. Holmes has talent, I think we all agree, but I think he left that talent at home when he signed that big ass contract. And again, I'm not blaming Hill's issues fully on Holmes as I mentioned in my previous post. If he had the veteran presence like all of you say he does, I'm sure he would of helped Hill try and fix at least one of his issues, am I right? I find it funny that everyone is dancing around him being a #2 WR that is getting paid 12.5 million. Holmes cannot beat 1 on 1 coverage week in and week out and I think the 2011 season confirmed that. Fine by me, and I agree hopefully Holmes proves us wrong again, I doubt it, but you have to hope for the best for 2013. My issue is with 2014 as I stressed in previous posts in this topic.
We're not getting any valuable picks for Holmes at this point so why get rid of him? He is much more valuable to us in our transition to a WCO than any mid-round pick would be.
Agreed. Holmes is coming off a big injury and he's making a pretty high salary. Holmes is gonna be a Jet next season no matter just based on salary cap reasons. Might as well accept it & hope he does well in helping the receiving core out with WC offense. ****** Holmes isn't bringing back any decent picks.
2011 was a difficult year.....TGG is littered with Wayne Fucking Hunter threads, Sanchez SUCKS!!! threads, Greene SUCKS threads, fire Tanny threads.... Yet when Tone expresses the EXACT SAME FRUSTRATIONS he's a 'cancer'. If that's the case, then there are 2,137 'cancers' on TGG. I love Santonio and can't wait for Tone and Bray to renew their wedding vows on the 50 yard line, this time with Kerly as ring bearer.
I think Holmes is a good player, but as GM I would fine him 10k everytime he does that ball drop shit after a 1st down.
We weren't going 14-2 that year. We were 11-5. We'd have needed that win plus 2 more. Did you flunk out of basic math or something? We had a lot of drops that game, but what really killed us that game was when our receivers got the ball taken from them on the ground and we couldn't even challenge, TWICE. Cotchery had a wide open end zone drop. What about the Weatherford fake punt failure? Folk missing a FG. Any of those plays being different could have changed the result of the game. It's easy to just blame one person, but it's simply not logical. But that's what happens when people only focus on the negative. Funny how you don't even remember how many completions he had, only that he had a drop. We can't get rid of Holmes unless we pick up an adequate replacement and I doubt we'll find that this year without over paying. He had nothing to do with our biggest playoff win (pats) in recent history, right? :lol: So how do you explain Hill catching 2 TDs in the Bills game and doing decently in other early games and then vanishing after Holmes got hurt. Only a fool would believe that Holmes doesn't open up the other receivers. He was doing well in 2012 as the focal point of the offense until getting injured. That's a fact. He can't? What a joke. Do you forget who was throwing him the ball? Our offense had turnovers out the ass, and Holmes was responsible for 1 or 2 since he's been here. Call it excuses, but I judge people by watching them play, and Holmes is a good receiver. Put a good solid QB in there and his stats elevate. I mean you really believe that QB has nothing to do with his low stats? I guess Larry Fitzgerald is garbage then, huh? His stats have been weak since Warner left, so Arizona needs to get rid of that cancer!!! :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: Yeah you get 4 of em. People just blow everything out of proportion like usual. He wants to win, and making him the go to guy out of our WRs MAKES SENSE. Schotty was stupid for under utilizing him. Sparano at least did that part better, but when he went down our entire offense took a big step back. People need to stop taking it personally that Holmes wanted more targets. IT MADE SENSE and was better for the team to win. Everything Holmes spoke out about was true. Calling him a cancer is unwarranted to say the least, and it's just a catch phrase that doesn't require any critical thinking whatsoever.
I meant 12-4 my bad, still that's potentially first place in the division. No, I didn't flunk out of math, but I believe the Patriots had the same record and we could of won a certain tie-breaker. Holmes had the easiest pass play of the entire game and he dropped a would be TD pass. Weatherford fake punt was pretty dumb as well, but it all came down to that moment. Sanchez had that huge pass play to Keller and we were driving. Holmes killed the drive with that drop. He's our play-maker, you don't drop easy passes like that. Getting rid of Holmes won't be until 2014 so we still have another year. 12 million is too much for Holmes. That's the issue. We may lose Revis due to his contract as well as Sanchez's. What did Hill do since the Bills game? Even when Holmes was healthy, Hill didn't do much after that Bills game. Again, he's not a #1 WR and he shouldn't be getting paid #1 WR money. Look at the stretch in 2011 where he disappeared. 3 catches for 35 yards here, 4 catches for 50 yards there. No big games, and I'm sure Mark targeted Holmes at least 7 or 8 times each game. He was awful and was a complete bitch in 2011. 12.5 million for 700 yards of production? Explain why that works? No point in comparing Fitzgerald to Holmes. He had the worst QB throwing to him last season. Sanchez is far from the worst in the NFL IMO. Holmes obviously wants to win, but his constant complaining and calling out of teammates when he's not carrying his own load? We don't need a player like that on the team, and I don't think Idzik would like a player like Holmes in the locker room either. 12 million for a #2 WR. You can't justify that.
The Patriots were 14-2. We weren't winning any tie breakers with them. Are you seriously telling me Cotchery's end zone drop was a difficult pass? He was wide open, not moving at all, and it hit him in the chest. Even if Holmes makes that play we are still down 9-7 and needed others to make plays as well. But you can't trade him unless you bring in an adequate replacement. He can be a #1, he just needs another guy out there to compliment his presence. It was nice when Edwards was that guy, but our offense was clearly stagnant after he got hurt. Not saying it was amazing, but certainly a lot better. The top WRs in the league get 9-12 targets per game. In 2011, Holmes was ranked #41 in targets, which equals 6.3 per game. That's low for any #1 WR. I'm sorry but you aren't going to be putting up huge yard numbers getting 6 attempts per game. Sanchez also stunk, and schotty's game plans were terrible. OH! SO IT DOES HAVE TO DO WITH THE QB. You don't say! FAR from the worst? Really? Ranked #31 in QB rating, dead last in total QBR(#36 actually), #30 in comp%, #26 in yards, threw the 3rd most INTS, ranked 25th in TDs, #1 in fumbles lost, #2 in total fumbles. Yeah he was FAR from the worst alright. I've always supported the kid and thought he'd be good someday, but the facts are the facts. Nothing about his play this year suggest he's even anywhere near average.
Patriots did go 14-2, in 2010 I forgot you got that one lol. In all seriousness, the Packer game wasn't decided at the time of the Holmes drop. It was pretty much the easiest play of the entire game and he fucked it up. The game was only 6-0, Packers kicked another field goal at the end of the game. We haven't even gotten through the other games I mentioned in this topic, including the Dolphins game - don't bitch, you are getting paid 12 million go out and play the game. Holmes in 2014 should be cut as he makes 12 million dollars to play a #2, 1b role with this team. 12M can you get both Maclin and Josh Morgan in 2014. Two high potential players that don't constantly bitch! Edwards and Holmes were a great tandem, but Braylon isn't the same player he once was. I thought Holmes did pretty much get #1 WR targets. Still 700 yards of production is horseshit. Blame Schotty, Blame Sanchez, but Holmes's cancerous attitude poisoned the entire team. We don't need a player like that on this squad. Considering the team we had last season, I don't consider Sanchez the worst QB. We had the worst offensive line-up I've ever seen prob in Jets history. Sanchez sucks donkey balls obviously, but remember this is a team game. Holmes isn't a team player, he makes too much money, and all he does is complain. Cut him in 2014. This is the youth movement on offense and he should go so we can rebuild this offense in the eyes of Idzik. Kerley has the same skill-set as Holmes. Holmes is talented we all know that, but I cannot stand this man's attitude! Never in my life have I seen a player like Holmes bitch like that - that's some Albert Haynesworth shit right there. This should be Holmes's last season with that cap figure - we'll certainly lose Revis because of Sanchez / Holmes's respective contracts. Take the 12 million and get two talented WRs to go along with Hill and Kerley.
1. Sanchez is not the worst QB in the NFL. He is statistically 35th best in the league. (Reminder: there are 32 teams.) 2. That said, Santonio Holmes excelled ONCE early on, and that is a streak of 5 quarters starting from the Bills game till the first quarter of the Steelers game. After that, he was plain painful to watch. (Then he would voluntarily throw the ball in the air just so 9ers would grab it.) 3. The problem? These guys are paid like premium players, but only are producing like a league-minimum guys. Take a pay cut, or take a hike.
You cannot justify paying Holmes 10 million in 2014. You cannot justify the 12 million he's getting this season. We can get 8.25 million off the cap in 2014. He has got to go then, unless he produces at an extremely high level next season which I doubt.
I love how people just exaggerate everything ridiculously. All Holmes does is complain??? He CONSTANTLY bitches? He spoke his mind to the media TWICE. He was right. He was frustrated at the end of 2011, and justifiably so. You don't pay a man 10 million a year and only give him 6 targets a game. The line was horrible and Sanchez was struggling. OMG HE COMPLAINS ALL THE TIME!!!! CUT HIM!!! His value is low right now because of the injury. No chance any teams want him unless it's a lopsided deal. It's unrealistic to even consider. I know darksiders want to fire every single person on the team, but that's not how you WIN. Holmes knows how to WIN. Holmes isn't a team player? Even though he took the young WRs under his wing before 2012, which I'm confident helped Kerley improve his game. Plus this year he didn't say a single thing wrong or do anything. Holmes doesn't bitch NEARLY as much as the people that hate on him and the darksiders, and that's really your best argument. I agree his contract is high, but he's pretty much the only playmaker left on offense. We have to keep him. You don't get better with LESS play makers. I don't think Maclin is going to get paid any less than 8 million per year when his contract's up and no team will want him unless we lose out big time with the trade. If speaking out to the media TWICE is enough to cut a guy from your team, then all the darksiders should be immediately banned. He complains WAY WAY WAY less than just about everybody on here.
